Borg early game: almost perfect!!! 2 suggestions.

posted on June 6th, 2011, 11:33 pm

I just want to say that with the addition of the intercept dode special, for the first time ever the borg early game is close to what I'd call "perfect balance."  I mean absolutely perfect, I can't imagine a better setup (and I'm a very imaginative person as we already know)

The Scube offers distinct advantages for each of its 4 modules that are balanced and fun, with the ability to do more complex strategies and synergistic effects.  You can use just a few scubes and have fun, or you can build a fleet out of mostly scubes and have fun.

The Adaptor is coming into its own, with a better attack and abilities that help your bigger borg ships to engage smaller ships.  You can use just a few adaptors and have fun, or you can build a fleet with many adaptors and have fun.  Also they fill a cloak-detect hole that has plagued the borg for a long time.

The Dode finally has perfect balance between its modules as well.  A dual-intercept dode can FINALLY have a significant effect on a battle with the introduction of Axial Assault, while Vinculum dodes have a good use.  Relay dodes fill an important role and the only module left is regen.

The first tweak I want to suggest, is to make the dode regen module slightly better.  Perhaps reduce its price a tiny bit or increase the regen bonus to 20% (as dode regen is very slow anyway).  Now that both vinculum and intercept modules gain their biggest advantage when there are 2 of them, the regen module should maybe provide something that allows intercept/regen or vinculum/regen dodes to be competitive as well.

My second balance suggestion comes from Arash and Boggz recent tourney matches.  We saw some serious competitive skill being applied, and I think the result showed just how balanced the fed/borg and kling/borg matchups are right now.  However there was one problem I saw with the second kling/borg game.  Boggz was Taq'roja, with a flawless build order of kbeajq and sangs, fighting on his half of the map with repair yards nearby, and he was unable to disable Arash's cloak detect.

I suggest that the Adaptor's speed needs to be changed from 120 to 110, that's all.  As far as roles go, it's similar to the Akira and it can also provide key cloak detect, but its combination of hitpoints and speed allow it to get in, reveal some key enemy ships, and get out so quickly even a seasoned player with a decent-sized fleet can't snipe it.  Right now an EM adaptor is like a cloak-detecting Ambassador, and like the Ambassador it needs a small speed nerf in order to not be "unkillable" in the hands of a seasoned player.

posted on June 7th, 2011, 1:17 am

I am primarily a borg player and I tend to agree with both these points. With the new double intercept dode it does seem like the regen module has lost its place in the latest patch. I seem to always see the other modules as a better option for my needs given the current setup. I would hate to see the adaptor slowed down as its one of my favorite ships but I agree that its speed may be a bit much given its revised role and for the sake of proper balancing that may be a good idea.

[Boggz]

posted on June 7th, 2011, 1:49 am

Last edited by Boggz on June 7th, 2011, 2:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

EDIT:  I'll leave my post here for posterity , but I was wrong.  The dode is already 100 speed and needs really no change to that .   :rolleyes:




  Heh ... edited this nonsense away .

  I would suggest simply making the Dode be static (not move) when it uses Coaxial.

posted on June 7th, 2011, 1:55 am

Well said, well said.  It's certainly a difficult thing for the devs to balance when Arash is the only player I've ever seen to consistently board decloaking ships (and cloaking ones before they got rid of that)

Unfortunately, you mixed up the ships.  I suggested the Adaptor get a speed reduction, the dode already has a movespeed of 100.

I wonder if you could do something weird like running your cloaked ships into the borg so they fly crazy patterns over and under them while decloaking.  The erratic pathing would make them hard to click on 

posted on June 7th, 2011, 1:57 am

Hahaha!  Oh crap!

  For some reason I thought the Dode was 120!!! 

  Sometimes Boggz is a bit of a ninny .

  Honestly I think the Adaptor is just fine at 120  .  I think the Dode's special should be looked at though a bit.

posted on June 7th, 2011, 2:14 am

Im my opinon acial special from double intercept is too good, few dodes with their special disable subsystems like you have nanites.  Its perfect against klingon small stuff. Its only 10 seconds but these 10 seconds will cause you to loose vital ships. I would recomend rebalancing it so dodes have reduced chance to disable subsystems for these 10 seconds.

posted on June 7th, 2011, 2:23 am

Okay, that makes sense.  But I love Coaxial, it's just such an awesome concept.  I feel like it would be better to nerf the module overall than nerf the awesome special attack.

Maybe since the second intercept module adds the special, it should increase the disable chance less?  What if 1 intercept module granted 7% and 2 modules increased it to 10% or 12%?  (Instead of the current 14%)

posted on June 7th, 2011, 10:23 am

I think Boggz is right. If your Dode is spinning around, it sort of makes sense that it stays still.

posted on June 7th, 2011, 10:37 am

I agree on most things you wrote, it's good to finally have fun when playing borg, but I feel like that the dode special is a little bit too powerful. Yeah ppl say it's only 10 seconds... 10 seconds can decice a game in FO early on especially if you have an ability that nullifies micromanagement. Timmy said something on teamspeak that it's like nanites in early game, and thats very true. It's a huge pain in the ass for cloaking races, also reduced the numbers of feasible starting builds for dominion players. You won't really see anything else than pure S-2 spam aginst borg (with 1-2 bugs mixed in for ramming)... and that was already an ugly tendency imo. 

posted on June 7th, 2011, 1:26 pm

I will take a close look at the Interception Module stacking on Dodecahedrons. Balance adjustments might always be added. I think decresing the base disabling chance would probably be my first step too, as i like the spinn-around-action 

Some module configurations - the Regen Dodecahedron or several configs on larger vessels - are currently less attractive. As you probably can tell from the many changes recently, the Borg and the Romulans are on their way to their actual faction redos. The Borg faction redo will include options that make several less common configs more attractive if you chose so. For example consider that Borg vessels which consist of many different modules ("hybrids") gain a certain degree of adaption because they are very flexible or things like that.

Similar things are currently happening to the Romulan Tal'Shiar Academy. The more frequent patches bare the risk that certain elements are less interessting for a while. But if necessary, we favor less interessting over imbalanced. Rapid releases during such major changes like the faction redos are challanging, so these small issues might always happen

[Arash8472]

posted on June 7th, 2011, 1:35 pm

Last edited by Arash8472 on June 7th, 2011, 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

as long as these "hybrid" mod's kill fed i'm happy :>

also klingons AND romulans "naturally" suck against borg and it has been like this for some time now so... this is not a "NEW" issue so get over it.

(fed early warpin rush always beats borg if you don't suck with them)

posted on June 7th, 2011, 2:48 pm

as i like the spinn-around-action 

That's because it feels like we're rolling D-20s!

posted on June 7th, 2011, 2:57 pm

critical hit!

posted on June 7th, 2011, 3:28 pm

Hhaah!!!! 

  Well put, Optec .  I can't speak for everyone but I'd certainly prefer to have small changes one at a time with good balance (as it's remarkably balanced now) than huge changes with no balance.