Prometheus class

posted on October 26th, 2013, 10:04 am

the length of the defiant varies based on episode. just like the klingon bop.
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/artic ... oblems.htm
you can argue for 120m or 170m and have evidence on your side for either.

the sovvie also might not have a battle bridge as we don't know if it can saucer sep.

also science labs, the enterprise always had lots of those. and ridiculous stuff like a phaser range or gym that could have been done on a holodeck instead.

also not all defiants have ablative armour. sisko's defiant had it, but they weren't even public about it, admiral leyton didn't even know sisko had it. also a cloak was special about that ship. fleetops is set decades later, the defiant has the ablative armour passive for all built defiants.

otherwise i agree with you, you have correctly identified why a defiant is a strong fighter, it dedicates all of its space to being good at fighting. fear of the borg led to a ship designed only for fighting. instead of the usual fed paradigm of being ok at multiple things.

posted on October 26th, 2013, 3:21 pm

Mini rant but, I do wish people would refrain from calling the Defiant a Battleship. Yes, it's a ship designed for battle, but that does not make it a Battleship by any other definition. It's a warship certainly. It's a Destroyer or a Frigate, depending on your view (some definitions have Frigates between Destroyers and Cruisers, others have the term as an alternative for Corvette)

I'm quite happy to keep calling the Defiant what canon did: Battleship. That's what appeared onscreen, so that's what it is regardless of what the word means.

I'll never understand why people insist on using real-world definitions for a fictional military that combines over a hundred human and alien militaries? Humans alone keep changing word meaning, without alien influence.

posted on October 26th, 2013, 6:11 pm

the length of the defiant varies based on episode. just like the klingon bop.
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/artic ... oblems.htm
you can argue for 120m or 170m and have evidence on your side for either.

the sovvie also might not have a battle bridge as we don't know if it can saucer sep.

also science labs, the enterprise always had lots of those. and ridiculous stuff like a phaser range or gym that could have been done on a holodeck instead.

also not all defiants have ablative armour. sisko's defiant had it, but they weren't even public about it, admiral leyton didn't even know sisko had it. also a cloak was special about that ship. fleetops is set decades later, the defiant has the ablative armour passive for all built defiants.

otherwise i agree with you, you have correctly identified why a defiant is a strong fighter, it dedicates all of its space to being good at fighting. fear of the borg led to a ship designed only for fighting. instead of the usual fed paradigm of being ok at multiple things.

I forgot about the gym and the phaser range. The living quarters are probably the biggest thing, when you remove around 200-300 additional living quarters (I am assuming that the ensigns double bunk) that is easily a medium sized hotel.

posted on October 26th, 2013, 6:19 pm

i would like to see it as a specialist warp in, since its rare

Descent = defensive tank
Teutoburg = base breaker
Prometheus = fleet breaker

(firing at 4 or 5 ships at once changing MVAM with MTAM, multi-targeting assault mode)
each phaser strip has a certain arc it can fire in the direction of so it works best in the middle of the fight not at the edge of the fight.
(to keep it easier for a strategy game no need for separation)

no other ship fits this role so it adds something to the game rather than fitting it in for the sake of it.

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posted on October 28th, 2013, 10:27 pm

Unless the devs have had an unannounced change of heart, Prometheus class is in "dead horse" territory when it comes to being a mainstream part of this mod. They may update / complete the partially implemented map object version of it that's in 3.2.7, but I would expect the work for that will be a very low priority task.

the sovvie also might not have a battle bridge as we don't know if it can saucer sep.

It's well documented that John Eaves incorporated saucer separation into the design, so there would be an additional bridge. I know what your response is, though -- "It was never seen or mentioned on film so its existence is undefined". Yes, what the designer says is not strict canon but I contend that, on the basis of the production design evidence, it should be regarded as having separation capacity unless proven otherwise.

One other interesting thing about the Sovereign is that, in terms of internal volume, it's actually smaller than the Ambassador class. I remember reading an interview somewhere where the idea that the Sovereign would be envisaged as the successor to the (extraordinarily successful but well past its sell-by date) Excelsior class as the Fleet's workhorse. Alas, I can't recall where it was said, so take that with a suitable dose of NaCl.

posted on October 28th, 2013, 10:41 pm

I know what your response is, though -- "It was never seen or mentioned on film so its existence is undefined". Yes, what the designer says is not strict canon but I contend that, on the basis of the production design evidence, it should be regarded as having separation capacity unless proven otherwise.

yup that's my exact response. things said by production staff aren't canon. so that evidence is completely inadmissible. with no canon evidence for or against sovvie sep, we can only say it's possible.

the production staff also said the akira had like a million torp launchers and a fighter bay with front and back doors. that was never explicitly contradicted in canon, yet nobody is interested in making the akira a godship.

the only stance canon supports for the sovvie is that saucer sep is possible. if you want to state that it definitely has sep, or definitely doesn't, then you'd need to find some canon evidence. you make the claim, you find the proof.