The Federation: An Armada Truely Unique

posted on October 29th, 2013, 9:02 pm

Reason for Posting: All this business about vessel separation and adding/removing Federation ships has driven me crazy, so I've decided to add to the madness. Is it the correct solution, probably not. But then why? It's the internet where ideas are born, raised, and die, why not? I do think this design would be a lot of fun if added, so I don't think I'm completely wasting my keystrokes. By all means, I'd love to see everyone's opinion. Otherwise it would be a waste.

Philosophy for this Concept: Starfleet is a "humanitarian and peace-keeping armada". Both of those descriptors involve self-defense at some point, so it's easy to agree with armed vessels. That, however, is where the armaments should be limited. If you really want a warship, call a Klingon. It may not be immediately apparent, but this philosophy can have a phenomenally positive impact on combat and gameplay. But how can weapons be limited and still be incredible? Keep reading.

Synopsis: At the start of the TNG era and during the original Trek days (as far as I know), every starship came with scientific equipment. It was science that really made things interesting. My favorite example is ST VI. Rigging a torpedo to follow ion gasses was not only brilliant, it also gave birth to the greatest fart joke of all time. Against the Dominion, Federation shields were once useless against their weapons. It was a shield mod that saved their puny heinies in that case. This is the concept that makes the fleet awesome. Even the Defiant was sent on science missions as much as a joke as that was.

Basic Design. First, I like the base concept in V4, so I'm concentrating on ships. In preparing for combat, the vessel's crew has done everything possible to prepare for battle, so things like power transfer, shield modulation, and weapon tuning is a given. Weapons and shields are fairly-well set. However, Starfleet usually uses an armor that easily vaporizes when hit to absorb damage rather than resist it. A ship with resistant armor will disperse the stress across the entire ship. By absorbing the attack, additional attacks are needed to strike the internal systems. With this in mind, the last 20% should have a higher resistance. The vessel should also take longer to repair if SI is below 20%. There should be a wide variety of corvettes, frigates, and cruisers that are more specialized.

Abilities: Point defense, repair teams, shield resets, critical shot; these are things that belong to Starfleet. Special probes and tachyon bursts would make a nice addition. Starfleet seems to have a real knack for screwing up the enemy's engines, so definitely throw in some of that. Then there's the separation deal. (here's comes the omg... and there it goes) V4 plans to introduce Grey Mode in some respect. I suspect this is to make ships harder to find in some way. I believe Grey Mode would work best with vessels that don't have a warp drive. Hence separation has an important role to play in combat. That's really the basic advantage of separation which is to get away from the warp engine. That colossal power pusher is what makes ships stick out like a Roman candle. Without it, a vessel can use better sensors (for detecting cloaked ships maybe?), perform sensitive technical operations, or maybe just be a sacrificial unit. Ramming would be a really really really fun addition beyond the Dom bug.

What is the intended end result? You're an enemy looking at this weak little fleet and you take them for easy pickings. You attack. They start to fall, but something strange happens. They know your every move. Torpedoes are disarmed. Shields are disrupted. The next thing you know, your armada is falling apart at the seams. A Romulan would employ some surreptitious counter. A Klingon would say if brute force isn't working, you're not using enough. The Dominion would try a new approach or some cleaver maneuver. The Borg?... Resistance is futile, mother-treker.

And kick the Defiant... make it a warp-in if you want it so badly.

posted on February 18th, 2014, 2:41 pm

I think that minimap ships should show up according to their energy signature. Energy signature should determine what ship gets attack first, and which gets attacked last. Ships with bigger signatures, such as a sovereign, galaxy, and defiant class should make sense to target first (or your can set your attack strategy to lower signatures). So that way, when you put a ship in low power mode, it is kind of like a poor mans cloak. Ships don't attack in grey mode, but neither are they targeted, unless specifically targeted. Don't know how it would work with AI.

posted on February 18th, 2014, 4:47 pm

Interesting ideas. But do not kick the Defaint. Keep it! In fact, make it an option as an early-game battleship and make it a "small" battleship. As the Federation has been known to build ships for the sole purpose of "brute force."

Now for some ideas to complement this thread.
The Federation has this habit of disabling the enemy weapons. So give all standard Federation weapons (except for the Defiant) a small change to disable the opponent's weapons. That way, one can spread the firepower of their fleet sooner and dissipate the enemy firepower without necessarily having to destroy the enemy ships. It would require great micromanagement skills with large ships to send disabled ships back to the yard for repairs. If I'm not mistaking, the AI system sets the priority based on who's actually firing on the fleet.

posted on February 23rd, 2014, 1:51 pm

I like that concept on grey mode. It could also work at hiding from long range sensors. The ship doesn't appear on screen or on the minimap until another ship gets close enough for it.

As for disabling weapons, most of the time, Federation ships simply attack the enemy's weapon systems. It's the old defeat your enemy without killing him philosophy. Weapon disabling specialists seems more like something a Romulan would build. However, a tractor beam dispersing a % of weapons fire working at close range would make a great special ability.

As for the Defiant. If you don't feel comfortable using a fleet without a warship, the Federation might not be for you. On the flip side of the coin, I would love to see a Section 31 avatar that unlocks warships and special bases. The idea would be to have a small fleet of expensive, but very powerful ships. The Defiant would go perfectly with that avatar and I would like a good chance to use it.

Side note: Apologies for the post format I think I was suffering from an interweb overload. I might take the time to rewrite it. And I know I've been lurking a bit, sorry. Been busy, but I'll try to keep up and post...

posted on February 24th, 2014, 4:14 pm

I like the fact that you're thinking about such things. anf in fact I was just about to ask for ideas for the feds since I'm having a hard time diversifying their ships in my mod. Except, you guys didn't really suggest much. Yeah the feds have a fleet of science ships, and I'm planning to buff their support ships heavily but what specifically do you want to see? More engine disables? Weapon disables? I can't implement grey mode on every ship, or an entire new avatar, or saucer separation.

If a science vessel has taken time to prepare for battle, and they increased both their firepower and their shielding then that'll have the same result. If you have resistant hull that takes longer to repair, that is the exact same thing as having more hull hitpoints.

posted on February 24th, 2014, 6:40 pm

Except that the Federation is no longer about just peacekeeping and humanitarian stuff anymore. The Defiant, Sovereign, Akira and so on were ships that were designed with combat in mind. I am not even including the awful Prometheus but that is mostly because I hate the design.

The Feds were the first race to develop quantum torpedoes which are more powerful than the traditional red blinky torpedoes. The Defiant is one of the premiere combat ships of ANY race and blew Klingon birds of preys and equivalent Dominion ships out of the water even when outnumbered. The Defiant even took on a much larger Klingon Vorcha at the same time as a BoP and survived direct sustained attacks from multiple ships with their shields down while they were transporting Cardies over. Even the Cardassians admitted that the Defiant was the most powerful warship in the area.

I think to dismiss Federation combat technology is a bit premature. Don't turn them into complete pansies they do have teeth.

posted on February 24th, 2014, 6:57 pm

If a science vessel has taken time to prepare for battle, and they increased both their firepower and their shielding then that'll have the same result. If you have resistant hull that takes longer to repair, that is the exact same thing as having more hull hitpoints.

I see what you meant. When I mentioned firepower and shielding, that was the make the point it doesn't make any sense to increase it further. As for weapon resistance, it's not a simple matter of more hitpoints. I had to rethink that a bit, but vaporizing hull armor would suggest high resistance on say the first 20% to 40% of hp, then either a standard resistance or low resistance afterwards. Compare that to Romulan hp which will have the same resistance from start to finish.

As for specific abilities... erm, I could think of a few. That's why I left the first post a little vague. Some off the bat examples would be:

Dispersive Tractor Beam: Mentioned eariler (limited range, partial effectiveness)

Failsafe Systems: Ideal for support ships. Consume energy to raise all system stats. It wouldn't work when shields are up.

Sensor Probe: Range: Artillery. Meant for corvettes or lower. A long-lasting but temporary sensor reveal of the area. MAY, emphasis on may, detect cloak. Wouldn't care if it didn't at all. Maybe if you established a perimeter with them.

Shield Reset: Already in FO, I know, but it's a great example of science over war. Keep specifically largest chasis.

Engine Boost: Again, already in FO.

Absorption Chaff: Another support tech. Deploy a large field that reduces beam fire for all ships. I don't like double-edged swords in Armada since I can't manage their usage with automation, but other might.

Deployable Armor: That's as far as I would go on the war end for the Federation. Keep for the largest ship. I know about the TP torps, but they are very op. It's one of the those trek things I guess.

That's all at the ideas I got off hand. It should suffice a theme anyways. If it's for a mod, I might go ahead with TP torps, but give them to all torp users and basically compensate for them. That way, they don't do anything special except change the color of Fedi torps from red to white. Maybe use blue phasers while you're at it. The idea is purely ascetic.

[After seeing latest post]

I agree the Federation shouldn't be pansies (reference above), but it's science, not war that makes them great. The Sovereign's tech can easily be argued as the next advancement of tech. I'm pretty sure the Sovereign doesn't have forward Photons anymore. The Akira is a science ship. The Defiant, as mentioned before, is an outlier like Section 31's dreadnought from ST:ID.

Ships like the Defiant take the Federation a step closer to the Terrain empire. The Federation's soul is more important than it's teeth. Bear in mind the Galaxy was accused of being a warship by the Fedi's lesser neighbors, and the Klingons called the Constitution a battlecruiser. It was powerful, but it was still a science ship. That's the armada I'm looking for in FO or anywhere else.

posted on February 24th, 2014, 10:45 pm

Maybe this is where we are getting are lines crosses. I don't differentiate between military technology and civilian technology. Things like shields, warp drives, torpedoes, phasers were all developed with military and defensive goals in mind. I hate you for making me do this because I have to reference Enterprise, but the first notable ships that could travel any distances were heavily armed with prototype weapons like the phaser cannon and polarized plating which was the best the Feds (or Earth in the shows case) had at the time. Even using some of the examples mentioned earlier such as the ability of the Feds to adapt their shields to work against the Dominion beams was an example of military technology not civilian technology.

Regarding the Akira, everything I have read states that it is a main line combat ship sort of like the Vorcha.

Galaxies and Constitutions were exploration ships not true science ships. This was even referenced in TNG when PIcard said that a pure science vessel would have to come out and do more analysis for whatever goofy anomaly of the week was occuring. Pure science ships are ones like the Oberth class and the Nova class.

Another difference is the assumption that because you have a strong military you automatically are some sort of bad guy and in danger of losing your soul. I am not understanding that and in fact any government that deliberately gimped its military abilities for no other reason than to pat themselves on the back for being enlightened and pacifist would be grossly negligent in their duties to protect their citizens. What if the Feds never bothered mass producing Defiants and Akiras, that could have had a tremendous impact on the Dominion wars and the Feds were already at a severe disadvantage. If nothing else it showed that the Feds were woefully unprepared for large scale conflict and I have a hard time seeing the Federation just up and forgetting that lesson after the Dominion war ended which is supposedly when Fleet Ops takes place in the timeline.

I do like the fact that the Feds are more creative in some respects than say the Klingons but I think that is an unwarranted stereotype as well. It was the Klingons that took out an entire Dominion shipyard with some small BoPs by dropping tribbles into the star it was orbiting causing it to explode. Klingons also reconfigured DS9s food replicators to act as surveillance devices. They used DNA to encode secret messages in the Enterprise show so they have the ability to have a wide range of unique ideas as well. This might come across as fanboyism because they do happen to be my favorite race to play in Fleetops even if their engines suck balls.

This is one reason I like how Fleetops is set up now and I hope they don't change the balance to much where every race has a flavor. The Feds are very tough ships but not quite as powerful, the Klingons can shred anything in seconds but I lose lots of my ships to engine failures (I just assign them to cntrl+6 which is my special junk fleet I only have to use for Klingons and Romulans are sort of inbetween.

posted on February 25th, 2014, 1:17 am

I hate you for making me do this because I have to reference Enterprise...

The feeling is mutual.

And even worse is that Enterprise NX *blah* and Enterprise E are the same in the regard of future advancement. I believe the Sovereign is simply using what will become standard in next line of vessels to be mass-produced. Starfleet has been improving their photon torps for years, but no that doesn't make them warlike.

I don't view science and war tech as separate. A scientist invented the atomic bomb. A soldier figured a way to put bigger bombers on an aircraft carrier (ref first US bombing of Japan in WWII). Creativity is universal in that sense. I do beg your pardon for using the term science ship. 'A ship of exploration' is more accurate. And that is what I'm looking for. I'm not looking for a fleet of Oberths (ugly little nits). I also like the fact the Feds have tough ships.

As the for the warlike empire bit, I agree a capacity for war doesn't make a nation bad. However, I don't believe the Federation is or will become a pacifist organization because Starfleet lacks vessels like the Defiant. That's why I say kick it. Like it or not, and I say this for me as well as thee, that's Starfleet's character which includes 'boldly' going where no one has gone before. So armed, even heavily armed ships of explorations? Sure. Warships? Call the Klingons. They need a good laugh now and then...

While on the subject, Klingons can be creative all they want. Even Klingons would get boring quick if all they had were special blasters of sorts. For Klingons, it's all about the fight. Whatever it takes to win.

As for the Akira... To the research lab! I'll be back with you...

*returns from lab* The Akira is not a pure warship. Brace for linkage!

http://techspecs.acalltoduty.com/akira. ... OBJECTIVES

And a perfect elaboration of the Sovereign.

http://techspecs.acalltoduty.com/sovere ... OBJECTIVES