creating a ship's ranks stat list.

posted on October 24th, 2010, 9:09 pm

Class  D T R Off Def Sys Speed Upgrade Weaponry:

K’tinga 140 98 8 11 10   4 130

        Rank 1 11 +0 11 +1   4
Rank 2 12   11     4
Officer Rank 1       12 12     4
Officer Rank 2       13 +2  12 +2 4
Veteran Rank       17 +6  21 +11 4  (2) = 12 r1    Unit Cost: 140/98


K’Vort:  498 178 16 25 20 8 120 Heavy Disruptor
          158 / 395
Rank 1   27 +2   21 +1 8
Rank 2   28   23     8
Officer Rank 1 30   24   8
Officer Rank 2 31 +6 26 +6 8
Veteran Rank 40 +15 43 +23 8    (5) = 5     Unit Cost: 656/573

Vor’cha: 796 258 31 38 30  14 100 Polaron Torpedo
          309 / 772
Rank 1   40 +2   32 +2  14
Rank 2   42     34     14
Officer Rank 1 44   36   14
Officer Rank 2 46 +8 38 +8 14
Veteran Rank 67 +29 75 +45 14    (8) = 3 r1    Unit Cost: 1105/1030

This is just sample from a list I'm making for my own curiosity. I noticed in the database that the ships give the original rank stats, and the Veteran rank stats, but I couldn't find anything for in between...

My main interest is in Rank 1, and Officer Rank 2. Rank 1 is pretty much what you would have after that ship gets the first kill or two.. so I figured that is pretty much what I should be basing things on, (hopefully the ships I build get at least one kill before they go boom, and therefore just wanted to know the ship stats for rank 1. And just displaying the upgrade difference.

My second interest was in Officer Rank 2, considering that in most cases only 3 ships can be made to veteran... the majority of ships will rest at officer rank 2 as being their maximum. So was curious to know what these were... couldn't find them anywhere on here.  Again, displaying difference. heh especially for the Vorchas I like, and people seem to respect, officer rank 2 leaves them at : 46 38 14

I'm assuming the majority of ships will be destroyed between these two... but still recorded rank 2 and officer rank 1.

And so I was just wondering if there was anywhere on here that lists the rank 1, or officer rank 2, because that would be helpful. I'm using the database section to get the majority of the information. So far, I have completed Taq'raja, with what is shown above. All ships, including original build costs stats and system stats, along with after each rank. Also give the cost of the research they each require, and the total unit cost. Includes the Vet slots required to promote, and the maximum number of vets each class is able to produce, and what the remainder is.

At the moment, the main things that aren't included are: ships description, ie large medium small, the range, weapon class, crew compliment. etc. Not really sure if I'll put these in or not, as they are already in the database.

Also, because when looking in the database, it gave mostly things for Martok... but Taqraja it didnt, like the Topmey class.

Finally, planning to compare these across factions. So far, only Taq is done. Most curious for Federation and Dominion... as these are usually who I play against in AI. So probably be doing them next. That way can see what ships are equivalent to one another.

Um, so yeah... just wondering if this information was already posted somewhere or not. If so, would save some time, (levelup is an amazing cheat btw).

If anyone wants the information, can probably post it somewhere or something, or maybe email it to whoever wants it. Depending on if people are interested, make a post about it, or just send individual messages to a few people. I'm not really in a hurry to do this, but thought it might be interesting to see the stats and hoping to get it done over next few weeks.

posted on October 24th, 2010, 9:11 pm

ahha, I copied and pasted the stats from word document... slightly out of alignment... but seems readable.

posted on October 24th, 2010, 11:45 pm

The database stuff is just temporary until the new database becomes operational . The values in the database are thus base values - without either avatar's bonuses 

You can find all unit values in the Dynamic_Localized_strings.h file, but you'll need to transcribe each one to understand them

posted on October 25th, 2010, 4:16 am

Ah, ok. Thanks for the reply.

I'll still probably make up the tallies myself, will be a good way to familiarize myself with all the different factions and their ships anyways. Only been here a couple of months, still learning stuff. But when the new Database is up and running, I'll have something to compare my own notes to, so it will still be good overall.

haha, Actually, I finished doing Mayson... didn't know until today that the Newton could be upgraded the way it is... lol So in a way this has already proven beneficial, going through each unit one by one, all their upgrades and specials, costs and rank improvements etc. Also seems like the Nebula class is the rarest warpin. Took me forever to get one.

It's a start at least. Yeah, I figured not too many people on here would really need this anyway... everyone probably plays them enough to know the main differences between the Avatars and ships and all.

Of course, I still need to play them all more. I think I've got a fairly good grasp for playing Klingons. But of course this is mostly looking at costs/ranks, but the cost is just half of it. Also the timing of everything, various maps, and the nature of the game(races)/opponent themselves.

Although, I do have one question after looking through the results: how do you determine which ships are most cost effective? I seem to have come across places which say cubes, or disruptor rhienns etc are more cost effective than other units... what specifically tells you this? I mean, from what I'm seeing, Kvorts are a decent unit for offensive, Kebeajqs have good defensive, so those two seem like decent ships. The Qaw'duj seems like the most well rounded ship for the Klingons, and the Vorcha is also pretty solid in Offensive and defensive value. Negh'var also is obviously a very tough ship starting right out of the yard. So, ignoring the specifics of a situation (clearly it's all relative to the units you are fighting against, and whether it is the opening or end game), but I would say overall those are some universally good ships. But how would I know how cost effective they are?

posted on October 25th, 2010, 11:54 am

Was thinking about cost effectiveness myself.  If you take special abilities into consideration then its difficult to come up with a calculation.  Without special abilities you could do something like:

effectiveness rating = (offense + defense + system) / (di + tri + supply)

and compare values.  Not sure it will produce anything really relevant though.

[Anonymous]

posted on October 25th, 2010, 7:41 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on October 25th, 2010, 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

godsvoice. to make tables u can write them just like html tables.

to define a table use the

Code: Select all

.

inside this you put

Code: Select all

for a row

inside those you put

Code: Select all

for a new cell. the forum gives buttons for these functions.

so you work from the top left cell and move right.

so you open the table then a row, then a cell by using

Code: Select all

then close a cell using

Code: Select all

then u can either open a new cell or close the row.

[nobbc]so a table will look like this:
top left celltop middle celltop right cellbottom leftbottom middlebottom right[/nobbc]

which actually is:
top left cell     top middle cell     top right cellbottom left     bottom middle     bottom right

i still havnt figured out how to make it use lines between the cells

EDIT: forum started adding tags automatically so i put the table stuff in code boxes

posted on October 26th, 2010, 10:27 pm

Interested for anyone's thought for below:

Response - Loki

Ok, so I took your equation. O + D + S divided by Di + Tri + Supply =

So far, I have done Taqraja and Mayson only. So the analysis is early on. Very good point, there is nothing to be said for specials, passives or particular unit strengths weaknesses against other unit classes. But here is the overall calculations

Klingon Taqroja

Veqlaragh 5.65
NoqDuj 6.86
Vutpa 7.02
Qawduj 7.04
Kbeajq 7.49
Vorcha 7.56
Kvort 7.66
Sang 7.78
Chargh 7.79
Chonaq 7.86
Brel 7.89
Negh’var 8.67
Ktinga 10.16
Bortas 13.25

Federation Mayson

Newton 4.29
Venture 6.58
Defiant 7.30
Canaveral 7.53
Sovereign 8.02
Saber 8.16
Akira 8.38
Remore 8.50
Nova 8.77
Norway 8.81
Excelsior II 8.84
Intrepid 9.58
Monsoon 10.07

Based on all the information in my statistic table.. I would say that overall this Should be accurate.

So.. I dunno, this is strictly using unit cost, for unit strength in O, D, S (straight from the yard as well). Although.. personally, I always focussed more on the offensive value relative to the Defensive Value. In this, Sovereign And Defiant seem to rank low, as they each cost over 1200.. so expensive units. I am not surprised to see the Intrepid and excelsior that high though, didn't think Monsoons would come in first, but I never really built them much.. haha maybe I should. But yeah, like Defiant being almost deadlast? Critical shot is nice though.. but yeah, I mean you are spending 1200 for it... so maybe it isnt that cost effective I am unsure. But I think it has one of the highest offensive values for Feds.. so I like to build it. Also for Norway and Nova... I never saw them as powerful units... I always targeted them last in a fight. Because offensive/defensive value rankings would put them much lower in a scale I think. Federation, almost universally, come in at 8.0+

As for Klingons... almost universally in 7.0+ range, yet offensively, the Klingons put the federation to shame (I think, but I am biased, I love the Klingon faction - the Vorcha is stronger offensively than all federation vessels at 38). A little bit more surprised with these results. Kvorts, Qawduj, Vorcha and Kbeajq I thought would be higher. I have always built these, along with Neghvars. And very recently, *haha since I found out about Ktingas which I didnt even know about until a few weeks ago,* been building them as my initial units. So, I am not to surprised with Neghvars and Ktingas ranking that high, and really, Bortas considering the low unit cost.. is understandable (although half the unit value comes from the 40 system value.. so I dunno).

The other thing... how relevant is the system value? Because if I were to just use the Off. and Def. these rankings would change a lot.  But, I will leave them as they are for now. Finally, it also depends when considering the purpose for which we use these units for. Newton is very low, lowest out of all of them... but it is made to repair other ships, therefore... how can we really measure it. And veqlaragh.. lowest unit on there, but it is meant for artillery use. But I'd like your thoughts... I can always change calculations to account for certain things. Perhaps we should be comparing them more with their own classes, ie destroyers, battleships etc.

Myles: it would be helpful if I could create tables, well for demonstrating this information on FO, but I am a visual learner, hard to learn things just by reading them. For instance, I see that by writing Your words went into a table... but then ha, um how do I right inside of that table?  will this show up inside a table? . well I will shortly find out... but where does the writing go?

any other suggestions for calculating a units cost effectiveness are welcomed.. I'm actually curious. Not that I want to spam the most cost effective ship, my main units for Klingons will always be Ktingas, Qawduj,  Kbeajq, Kvorts, Vorchas, and Neghvars... but seeing sang being that high, beating mostly all of my favoured units.. maybe they are more worth building than I had thought. but yeah, I think it would just be interesting to know how to figure it out.

And on a sidenote. The Ambassador, Excelsior, Galaxy, Nebula +refit, Steamrunner and Descent are free and therefore based on this method of calculation, are extremely overpowered... so naturally, if we could I would like to see them removed from the game please. (...joking)

I'll be calculating Dominion and Romulans soon enough, along with the other two avatars.

posted on October 26th, 2010, 10:30 pm

trying the table thing... I dunno.

posted on October 26th, 2010, 10:32 pm

lol. dunno, I'm typing the [ table ] stuff, but it just erases them when I post it, and no lines appear   

posted on October 27th, 2010, 4:24 am

Yeah, so I think I'm missing something with this. By these calculations... Disruptor Rhienns are better than Torpedo Rhienns... but Cubes are not very good at all. You spend upwards of 3000.9500 between di/tri/supplies for 500 in combine stats. That's like 5.5 percent. hmm...

What is cost effective? Is there another factor to be considered.. obviously they target multiple vessels, stats are staggering, in that they rival starbases.... but they cost much more than a starbase as well... so I am confused.

Cost Effectiveness?????

Finishing up doing Dominion Breen. Their Prototypes are obviously not very effective, but from the looks of it,  the actual units are upwards of 10.0-12.0+ So Dominion have best resource cost to system value - so far that I've seen using the stated method.

[Atlantisbase]

posted on October 27th, 2010, 4:27 am

Last edited by Atlantisbase on October 27th, 2010, 4:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tables are probably the trickiest bit to learn in HTML style (i.e. BB) coding.
Basically it's like this

Code: Select all


   
        Row 1, Column 1        Row 1, Column 2
   
   
        Row 2, Column 1        Row 2, Column 2
   
   
        Row 3, Column 1        Row 3, Column 3
   



The above code will produce this:

   
        Row 1, Column 1        Row 1, Column 2
   
   
        Row 2, Column 1        Row 2, Column 2
   
   
        Row 3, Column 1        Row 3, Column 3
   


If it helps when you put the BB code you can format it exactly like I did in the code example, it won't matter, the forum engine just ignores the returns and spaces between the tags. Just remember, for every opening tag, like

Code: Select all

 

you must have a closing tag, which is exactly the same except for the slash after the opening bracket.

Code: Select all

 

If you make sure you do that, everything should work. It is true that no grid lines are drawn, so if it helps you can put spaces after the text in the first column to separate it visually from the second column.

posted on October 27th, 2010, 9:29 am

yup, u can also use the forum buttons to produce these tags for u.

Also edit your posts instead of triple posting lol. Push modify, or click the pencil. Clicking the pencil doesnt give u the button panel though, only modify does. So the pencil is for minor txt edits.

posted on October 27th, 2010, 2:17 pm

Cost effectiveness really cannot be calculated so simply. Each faction has different costs associated with how mining functions, and simple addition cannot be used to come to any half way decent measure of effectiveness. For instance, Dominion can simply mine supply. Supply is also not equal its weight in dilithium or tritanium  . If you notice, it can cost 750 dil/tri for 250 supply .

posted on October 28th, 2010, 12:18 am

I have noticed the table tags in here, but I don't really know how to use them. Like ok with doing [table- but where do I write the text? hmm just dunno. I'd really have to see it in person.

lol yes... I forgot about the edits... silly to keep adding posts *shrugs*

I realize that I do not currently have an accurate measure for cost effeciveness.... but that is what I'm asking. How do you guys calculate a units effectiveness?

This is something I was thinking about. Ignore your Dilithium/Tritanium/Supply that goes into a unit. Use the offensive + defensive / by time it takes to build the unit. Would this be somewhat more accurate? But this still can't be accurate.. because the di. tri. supply. must mean something.

I'm just wondering what it is that tells you the unit cost effectiveness,is it experience from online gameplay? I mean, even if it is hard to measure across factions, within a single avatar, what decides?