Overpowered AI

1, 2

posted on February 16th, 2010, 7:59 pm

Last edited by Atlantisbase on February 16th, 2010, 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Our fine devs can move this to a more appropriate forum if they so desire.

I know there are those here who think playing online is better, but I personally prefer to play the AI, if only because it fits my time tables better. Not to long ago I started a game against a random AI set a normal level. As it turned out they were Romulans. I happened to be playing Risner (yeah, yeah, say what you want, I like to play her for the late game battleships). I wasn't a half an hour into it when the AI started sending Norexans at me and they even had a Tavara built. Is it just me or does this strike anyone as being a bit much? I know that the AI doesn't actually have to mine and just builds mining stations for the sake of building them. Was this true in Stock as well? If not (or even if it is), could the you [the devs] put it back (or maybe find a way to make it work). That would certainly help things. Because right now the problem is that the AI is building too much too fast and no human player can keep up with it without having unlimited resources.

Maybe you could also tune down the AI. As it stands I have to turn the AI Build Time and Cost modifiers up to 1.10-1.15 to make the game playable against a "normal" AI. I realize that most of the AI is hard coded and so there's nothing that can really be done, but these last changes are really a bit much.

Captain Proton

491 posts

posted on February 16th, 2010, 8:05 pm

Hmm I see your point, although the game is supposed to be a challenge, trust me you wouldn't like it if you could win too easily.

I suggest looking at the FO Guide by Dominus Noctis, as for strategies :thumbsup:

cabal

674 posts

posted on February 16th, 2010, 8:27 pm

Freyr managed to make an AI for stock that can adapt to the situation and doesn't cheat. It almost seems human according to the beta testers. I suggest that the devs take a look at it to see what he did. It can be found here.

Atlantisbase

Topic Starter

676 posts

posted on February 16th, 2010, 8:39 pm

That's true, but there's no point in playing an unwinnable game. I have read Dominus' guide, not completely, but enough to know what he's saying, and I'm playing pretty close to his strategies but when playing against an unaltered AI, the speed at which you have to build strips you of resources and yields only a handful of early-mid game ships which are quickly destroyed while the AI, in that same time frame, manages to produce entire armadas of late game ships which are impervious. This leaves you helpless as you watch your base slowly being dismantled. It just seems a bit overpowered for "normal", if I were playing the hardest level, I might expect this, but it just strikes me as being overpowered.

Captain Proton

491 posts

posted on February 16th, 2010, 8:41 pm

I do wish there was a better AI. Adaptive would be nice

Mal

Donator

2736 posts

posted on February 16th, 2010, 8:45 pm

There are tons of games against Merciless AIs on yandonman's youtube video thread. I'm sure some of them will show some tips on taking on a normal AI. It helps if you blow up their expansion early, as they don't seem to produce as much and then you can build up your large fleet of Battleships. ^-^

Optec

Dev Team

5402 posts

posted on February 16th, 2010, 8:53 pm

I will take a look and perhaps make the normal AI a bit more beginner friendly

Atlantisbase

Topic Starter

676 posts

posted on February 16th, 2010, 9:19 pm

Mal wrote:It helps if you blow up their expansion early, as they don't seem to produce as much and then you can build up your large fleet of Battleships.

I do try that but may times they have a fleet which descends on me and obliterates me before I can do anything, then I'm again, out the resources and the ships.

Mal

Donator

2736 posts

posted on February 16th, 2010, 9:30 pm

That's part of why I suggested looking at some of these youtube replays, or you could play with people on tunngle and do a game against the AI (It doesn't always have to be against a person). That way someone can make suggestions or something. It's hard to give advice on the forums, so having someone there who can go "Hey, maybe you could do this instead..." would give you more ideas and whatnot.

I won't be able to play until the weekend, but there are others where you could ask them for some guidance. Boggz is on a lot and would love to take a break from getting K'vort spammed, I'm sure.

snu

13 posts

posted on February 16th, 2010, 11:11 pm

i also like playing against the ai, havn't actually done an online game yet... i guess to me video games are always more of a solitary experience.
anyway, what seems to help me is having two or more ai opponents, since they tend to fight against themselves, and you can try to avoid them for a while. also, using larger maps helps, or 8 player maps with the enemy on the far side, or maps with a bottleneck that you can build a turret city in. you could also try a 2-on-2 game and get some ai assistance maybe, or you plus normal ai versus hard ai.

regardless, i agree that the ai is majorly broken, and if i remember correctly, the devs agree as well... i remember hearing something about an ai redesign being implemented soon.

Atlantisbase

Topic Starter

676 posts

posted on February 16th, 2010, 11:26 pm

snu wrote:also, using larger maps helps, or 8 player maps with the enemy on the far side, or maps with a bottleneck that you can build a turret city in.

Actually, I find that when playing on large maps you run more of a risk because it takes so long for them to find you or you to find them, they build up a large force which they then launch (spam) at you while you are still stuck with a small, weaker fleet. At least on a smaller map they find you quickly and you can sort of keep their forces smaller.

Dominus_Noctis