Some more questions!

posted on April 28th, 2009, 4:45 pm

Okay people i would like to ask some questions on ship stats.... I typed in various searches along those lines but can't find anything.

First how do i (can i?) view the ship database, these seems to be no notepad, word file and i don't want to fiddle with files i don't understand!!!

Secondly. When a ship has an offensive value and one phaser i assume that offensive value relates directly to its phaser. However what if the ship has 2 phasers? Or a Phaser and a Torpedo? I ask because i'd like to know how these work.

For instance a mixed tech akira can lose out on stat bonuses. However it can gain an additional Torpedo. This additional Torpedo doesn't change its offensive value so one assumes that value is the POWER of each phaser or launcher. As such an additional Phaser or launcher is going to make the vessel very capable?


Have i got that right? Or do the weapons all add up and are sumarised in the "offensive" value? It probably seems like a silly question but i would like to know.

[Zebh]

posted on April 28th, 2009, 4:51 pm

Last edited by Zebh on April 28th, 2009, 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Quote from another post:

Well i suppose i should post my (incomplete) guide for the DLS info for those out there that cant read those symbols. Also, what formulas do you use to derive the actual underlying values out of the values you see in tooltips?
Numbers:
1=£
2=¤
3=¥
4=¦
5=§
6=¨
7=©
8=ª
9=«
0=¢
Other Symbols:
Special Energy Lighting Bolt (yellowish-gold)= ()Its in there it just wont display
Bullet:Å (needs to be preceded by 4 spaces i think) (regular bullet, not red or green or anything i think)
Indent:Æ (needs to be preceded by 4 spaces i think)
grey "(passive)" text: Ÿ

The ship descriptions are in Dynamic_Localized_Strings.h file in fo data directory.
You can take a copy of that file and with worpad's find and replace tool you can change those marks into numbers that they represent. (I had some problems with some marks above, but I checked some values from the game to get everything readable) Don' t change anything in the original file.

I think that ships damage for different weapons is class specific. Monsoon phasers do each the same damage but Negh'var's torpedoes does more damage than Negh'var's beam.

[wfs5519]

posted on April 28th, 2009, 8:33 pm

Last edited by wfs5519 on April 28th, 2009, 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

...Added 3 dynamic unit attributes. These attributes describe the capabilities of vessels or stations.

• Offensive Value:
  The offensive capabilities of a starship or station. Units with higher offensive values can deal higher ammounts of damage or have faster reload times
• Defensive Value:
  The defensive capabilities of a starship or station. Units with higher defensive values can sustain higher ammounts of damage before getting critically damaged or destroyed
• System Value:
  The special system capabilities of a starship or station. Units with higher system values can reload their shields and repair their hulls faster. The system value does also define the special weapon energy recharge rate.

...

You can find some other info on system values coming up in the next patch, too (at this link):
//www.fleetops.net/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,3/topic,4825.0/

edit:
offensive values relate to total amount of damage the ship or station can dish out, in combination with reload times.  So in other words its not about each individual weapon, or power of each weapon by itself, it is about the total combined power of all the weapons, and how fast it can reload them.  So from what I understand, if a regular akira, for example, just has a phaser, and an offensive value of 20, and the mixed tech version has a phaser and torpedo, the offensive value is still 20, it is either one of 2 things.  It could mean the combined power of the torpedo and phaser is the same as the original akira's single phaser, to keep balance, or it could mean its just a small bug.  You would probly get a better answer from the modders on that one.

posted on April 28th, 2009, 8:38 pm

Okay now i understand that, what i meant and obviously i'm not getting across is;

How does offensive value relate to multiple weapon strengths?

Perhaps an example would do;

Say we have a ship with a Phaser and an offensive value of 22, then we have a ship with an Offensive value of 15 but 2 Phasers. Which comes out on top? Is the Phaser and OV 22 beating the other ship or does the 2 Phasers multiply the offensive value and deal more damage per second even if each beam does less.

I only ask because Borg ships for instance have multiple beam weapons and often due to those beam weapons can inflict more damage than their offensive value seems to imply?

posted on April 28th, 2009, 9:35 pm

If two ships have the same weapon rating they have the same damage output. So in a straight up fight the ship with the higher offensive value will always win. Assuing that both ships have the same defence rating, and no specials are used (what i meant by straight up).

posted on April 28th, 2009, 10:00 pm

I'm not getting what i'm asking across, that or i'm being stupid and not understanding the answers  Most likely both.

I just want to know how the offense translates into the different weapon strengths and numbers.

While a reasonable guide i do like to know the power and strength of phasers and shield etc. Have started looking through the database however it will be easier to understand the equations and relative strength of values if someone has the answer than working it outmyself.

Defensive value is obviously split between hull and shield

Offensive is obviously split between the weapons, and a straight up fight hardly ever fights. For instance steamrunners seem to be quite handy against later borg ships... Tri cobalt torps often miss but not so much against borg. They therefore seem to have an offensive value above what they are stated.

Thus why i often like to understand the actual game mechanics of a situation. It allows you to better understand your fleet and adapt it to a certain combat situation.

Following the case above, if tricobalt torpedoes aren't that bad against borg does this make the Intrepid with Tricobalt special a better choice than the Akira.

However against an opponent with beam weapons and faster ships is the Akira that can blast away with phasers and normal torps going to be a better ship...

Against the klingons is a ship with multiple phaser banks a better choice again etc.

I still can't seem to phrase my question in a sentence... Guess i'll have to have a think on it and get back to you or i'll just start babbling.

posted on April 28th, 2009, 11:06 pm

Well, as far as I recall: torps do more damage against hulls, and less against shields. Phasers do all around same damage to shields, but less to hull. Pulses do more to small ships and shields, I think.

And yes, the Intrepid is very powerful against the Borg... much better than the Akira in my opinion 

The tricobalt does much more against structures (according to the tooltip I believe) and hulls, so very decent against Borg ships.

posted on April 28th, 2009, 11:31 pm

A good example of what i was trying to do is explained via one the klingon avatars.

She gives her B'Rel and K'Vort class an increase in offense but ALSO another torpedo launcher.. Presumably this torpedo launcher doesn't add only two points in offense as that is basically saying those two bonuses are only one and thus making her less useful than other avatars.

In this case then her ships have torpedoes as well as pulse weapons and so would surely mean they are far more capable than the normal B'Rel..


Or what about the Defiant when it gets an additional 2 quantum torpedoes. Surely they also make the ship more capable than its simple increase in offensive value suggests? As its throwing out a lot more firepower (a silly amount actually...2 pulse weapons and 2 quantum torpedoes... way to go!! Especially if its the romulan or klingon one!)

posted on April 29th, 2009, 12:06 am

It's cool.  I've got you covered. 

No one fully understands how the damage is calcualted, but I can get you close.  Let's take a look at the Negh'Var.  It has 2 weapons.  A beam and a torpedo.  The tooltip reads an offensive value of 50.  According to the Odf file, the base damage for Taq'roja's negh'var is 21.333, with a shot delay of 2.  The torpedo has a base damage of 33.075, shot delay of 2.5.  Add the two together and you get 54.408, which is close to 50.  When I account for the longer delay for the torpedo, I get a total value of 47.793, also close to 50.

Of course there must be more to the calculation, because we're getting values above and below the stated number.  But at least we see a correlation between adding the base damage and and the difference in shot delay.  It's not perfect, but it helps you understand that each weapon is additive to the stated offensive value, which I think is your question.

If you really want to know how much damage a ship will do to a particular ship, you can look at the long list below the base value, which lists every ship.  This is because the damage a weapon will do has already been calculated beforehand.

Hope this helps you judge what's better for certain situations.  I've always felt that multiple phasers do less damage, but that's a theory in progress. 

posted on April 29th, 2009, 1:43 am

I think that weapon range is also factored into the offensive value.

posted on April 29th, 2009, 6:46 am

Yep all of this is very murky to us non dev-gods... oh please masters of FO can we please be instructed as to how to figure all of this out?

posted on April 29th, 2009, 1:40 pm

The Offensive Value describes all combat capabilities of a vessel, including its damage per second, the weapon profiles (the weapon type, possible multi targeting and much more), as well as other stuff like weapon ranges. the Offensive Value always states the complete firepower of a vessel, including all its weapons

posted on April 29th, 2009, 2:17 pm

Cheers for the replies people. Is there any chance that the equations for offensive values be released in the future or a database made showing the full statistical break down of the units?

Would be useful for those who are graduating from newcomers to the finer points of the game!

posted on April 29th, 2009, 11:17 pm

what i mean was given the underlying stats of a given vessel how do we calculate its values? Edit: i didnt realize that Anthony said pretty much the same thing, so what he said.

posted on April 30th, 2009, 4:09 am

the exact math is quite complex and takes many factors into acount, ranging from raw dps (that is adjusted due to the role and profile of the vessel) up to smaller thinks like weapon system hitpoints and regeneration rate. But i will try to set up an explorabale database this year, where players can analyze the vessels and forge their tactics. I'm just to busy at the moment with the 3.0.6 development