Suggestions

posted on February 3rd, 2010, 9:49 am

#1:

Borg:

I would like to have a specific "module" overviev for every ship class.
For example, if you want to build a sphere, I've build up to 8 diffrent versions to find out, which version is the best in order to make combat. For me, it is the sphere with one reg-module and 3 beam modules, without the torpedo module.
There is another version, with one torpedo module, no beam module and 3 regeneration modules. This one is also good.

Similar things for each chassis. So to say What is the best "combat combination" and what the best "purpose combination".

#2:
Exact Analysis of mixed Tech ships with all values and the active/passive abilities, with DETAILED description, what it does and not only "tooltip". When the tactical armor on the monsoon comes out, I want to know, that 33% of the damage from beam weapons is reduced, when the shields are down.

Then I exactly know: Ah, so this ship will last a little bit longer when shields are down, so I dont really need it, because with shields down, this ship is already dead - even with better hull armor.

#3:
Equivalent Damage of "specials". For example, the Serkas class, I dont know how much damage it will do exactly, from the steamrunner class, I know it.

#4:
A small description of the "offensive value" in view of the "damage" a ship will make. For example:
I have an offensive value from 40 and a phaser with the damage "8" (Galaxy two gold bars) and I have a ship with offensive 20 but damage 16 (any other one) - so which one of both does more damage? The one with higher damage factor, or the one with higher offensive value?

Same goes for the shields. The ability "high densitiy shield generators" will reduce the damage taken from long range weapons and will be less efficient against shor ranged. Does that mean:
- The long range damage reduction is 40% and the short range damage reduction is 0% or
- The long range damage reduction is 40% and the short range damage reduction is -40%
(for example)

posted on February 3rd, 2010, 7:17 pm

I second this notion, as there were so many changes to ships and I am having trouble figuring out effective counters.

posted on February 3rd, 2010, 7:22 pm

#1 Nice idea.

#2 The Monsoon gets damage reduction regardless because the engine doesn't have codes to define shield damage and hull damage separately. Though it is useful to know the effectiveness of bonuses.

#3 What are you trying to get at? You saying that special weaponry is all equalized?

#4 Not bad...

posted on February 3rd, 2010, 8:12 pm

Surprised Dom hasn't jumped yet .

  I'm quite sure that Dom intends to make a more detailed and "pretty" Mixed-Tech-Section, it's just that he's got school and is still in the process of updating his site to accomodate the changes in 3.1.0 and 3.1.1.

 
  Don't fret.  I'm sure he'll get around to doing some better Analysis for the mixed-techies.  He's anal-retentive enough that I'm guessing it will drive him crazy if it's NOT done, but as I understand it he's got lots to do right now and is hard at work on the Unit Analysis' for The Romulans and the Dominion.

  Just be patient .  Testing them out yourself is always a righteous way to get info too .

posted on February 3rd, 2010, 8:18 pm

#4:
A small description of the "offensive value" in view of the "damage" a ship will make. For example:
I have an offensive value from 40 and a phaser with the damage "8" (Galaxy two gold bars) and I have a ship with offensive 20 but damage 16 (any other one) - so which one of both does more damage? The one with higher damage factor, or the one with higher offensive value?

  I think I see what you're getting at in terms of what it should be in the guide, but in the game the reason that a Galaxy has an offense of "X" with only 8 damage in the Phasers is because it's torpedoes do HUGE damage.  The Torpdoes are it's primary weapon and are really where it's damage comes from.

A ship that has a lower Offensive value but ONLY has phasers will likely have a stronger phaser than the Galaxy but will still do less damage overall because the Galaxy's Torpedoes are so strong.  The same goes for a number of other vessels in the game.  A Taq'Roja Kvort has Pulse Disruptors that do 11.6 damage each while it's torpedo does only 2.  Martok's Kvort does something like 11.2 damage per pulse and has no torp.  So the idea is that each vessel generally has 1 weapon that is their "Primary" weapon.

 
  I suggested a while back that the Devs include in the tooltips a different color for the "Primary" weapon, but since all the actual damage values are now listed on the subsystem icon for each ship along with reload time, you can see for yourself!  .  The Intrepid is a great example.  Both of it's weapons have the same reload time, but the torpedo is significantly stronger.

posted on February 3rd, 2010, 8:36 pm

Only Optec knows the calculations, that's why it's hard for Dom to post what he's never seen.   Basically though, all weapons are normalized with a shot delay of 2 and then added togeter, but pulse, beam, and torpedoes have slightly different values when calculating the stated offensive value.  The forums have several threads regarding ways to do simple offense calculation.  It's out there!  Also, look at RCIX's modding kit if you want to learn more.

posted on February 3rd, 2010, 10:55 pm

Hehe, I didn't have a chance to jump in cuz I was in classes all day - but now I can tackle it

#1: Well, the database should have both those combinations, and I just added the reduction percentages in there as well . The Unit Analysis covers what configurations are 'best' for each chassis  . I'll add an analysis just for the Beam Sphere, just because that is popular - however, it still is not as good as the Prime Sphere (for the reasons that I will describe there in a short bit ). I tested the Torp Sphere extensively in the last few days, and I'm writing an analysis now  . If you want some more things added to the database, just tell me

#2: Indeed, as Boggz said, I'll work on these shortly - since the database hasn't been put up for them yet, there is little to refer to, and it is a lot easier for me to describe stuff once I've tabulated everything in the appropriate databases - consequently, that will come a little later . Most information should still hold true, and I will update the blatantly incorrect stuff as I see it

Gamer is absolutely correct about the engine being unable to tell the difference between hull and shields - hope that influences your choice Sheva

#3: Can you explain what you meant in a bit more detail?

#4: Not sure I can add much to what Boggz and Mal said - that's pretty much accurate to the situation

Same goes for the shields. The ability "high densitiy shield generators" will reduce the damage taken from long range weapons and will be less efficient against shor ranged. Does that mean:
- The long range damage reduction is 40% and the short range damage reduction is 0% or
- The long range damage reduction is 40% and the short range damage reduction is -40%
(for example)

This I can definitely add in or at least explain. To be honest, knowing the percentages won't help that much in my opinion, and they will change after the next patch by a 10% decrease, but I'll do my best

I second this notion, as there were so many changes to ships and I am having trouble figuring out effective counters.

This should be well addressed (I hope) in the Unit Analysis for each faction

posted on February 3rd, 2010, 11:20 pm

#3 means how much actual damage a special weapon will do if I'm not mistaken.  The Serkas example may not have been the best example.


If you mean "How much damage will a Proximity Torpedo or a Heavy Disruptor do?" then the answers are also in the ODF's.  Dom could do that and put those in if he ever decides to list the Special Weapon's statistics.  Just more work for him though .  Ask nicely

A Weapon Overload from a Negh'Var does 300 damage in perspective.  I don't think it's adjusted by much.  However A proxy torpedo does 70 base damage to fast units and a certain percentage less to larger units and/or units with reductions.  The actual list of damage for every ODF is VAST and laid out by computer formula by Optec.  Too hard for Dom to list beyond a "general" number.

posted on February 3rd, 2010, 11:42 pm

I could see adding the base damage for the rank 1 vessel.  But going along with what Boggz said, that number is only useful if you know the hitpoints of the vessel you are attacking.  All of that is in the odfs.  I guess the shield/hull hitpoints could be added eventually, then things like special weapon damage would make more sense.  I really recommend looking into those files, as that's how some of us had to do it to understand!

[Dominus_Noctis]

posted on February 3rd, 2010, 11:53 pm

Last edited by Dominus_Noctis on February 4th, 2010, 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

Aaaah, right: that would be damn difficult  . With Tom's odf parser, some of the tabulating may be easier, but it would just be next to impossible to list all those combinations, especially with all the passives and levelup bonuses (we haven't tested it yet or seen how well it can be integrated in the database - but I'm sure that's the future). 

EDIT: Using my supreme powaaaa as moderator I.... double post, or not 

Just wanted to let you know Sheva that both new unit analysis for the torp module and beam moduled spheres are up - and I updated the stats for the Borg database to reflect the totaled amounts of damage reduction. I'll go thru the other databases and see what I can do about making damage amounts for passives more clear

posted on February 4th, 2010, 2:18 pm

Using my supreme powaaaa as moderator I.... double post, or not 

Watch out... if you abuse, the power will be removed just as easily as given.

posted on February 4th, 2010, 2:42 pm

Some how I doubt the Devs would be so strict

posted on February 5th, 2010, 8:01 am

Hi
To #3:
Yes, I meant the value for the damage of the special weapon.
The quadcobalt-torpedo is only listed a "being there" but no damage number is listed. For the steamrunner, you see exactly a value, like 75 or something like that.

Same goes for the shields. The ability "high densitiy shield generators" will reduce the damage taken from long range weapons and will be less efficient against shor ranged. Does that mean:
- The long range damage reduction is 40% and the short range damage reduction is 0% or
- The long range damage reduction is 40% and the short range damage reduction is -40%
(for example)

Selfquote: Well, the percentage is not what I want, I want the system behind it. Like "Does is reduce the damage from long range ships but no damage reduction to short ranged" OR "damage reduction from long rangen and INCREASED damage taken from short ranged"?

Something like that.

posted on February 5th, 2010, 8:12 am

The Quadcobalt is a different kind of weapon.  Since it doesn't just do a "straight" amount of damage like any beam or the tricobalt, it has to have a different damage code.


I confess I have no idea how it actually works, but it is likely a "damage-per-second" function that has varying dps rates based on where a vessel is in relation to the ceter of the explosion .

posted on February 5th, 2010, 1:07 pm

The Quadcobalt... that's the Serkas, right? The damage values are in the file for the shockwave and works like a Self-Destruct.