Our "friendly community" - ...

[Dexter]

posted on June 6th, 2011, 4:47 pm

Last edited by Dexter on June 6th, 2011, 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hello there forum dwellers.

As the title says I will be writing about our so called "friendly community".
Perhaps it is not the best ting for me to post this, but not saying a ting will not make things  better.
I am a little saddened that I will be darkening your day (not for all of you), but it has come to my attention that recently things have gotten out of hand. I have asked some "people" to watch, join in our little so called "friendly" community, and frankly as I was not paying attention, it seems things evolved here, and not in a good way as it seems.

Yes, it is my fault for advertising a thing I was no longer 100% familiar with, there is no excuse for that, and I really did feel ashamed for this mistake, and yes I'm no longer in my teens, but those whom "helped" me feel this way are not either (in there young years), or they wanted to be considered "adults" and I foolishly did so. Again this is my fault, and I will no longer be foolish enough to do this. And yes they did laugh it off, but the taste in my mouth was bitter.

So here goes, I hope I did not confuse you, and don't worry I'm not in any trouble over this, it just hit me in the face like a cold shower, that perhaps the time has come to move on if things do not improve.

Please feel free to be as offended as you want to be, but this what I'm writing about is to much to bear, as some of you have made me and most importantly even others wanting to leave for good.

- - - Do not read further if you are a weak hearted self centered sissy. No pun intended. - - -

I have not "said" a word since a long time ago, perhaps even because of not wanting to offend anyone (really), but this "look at me, whom am I" is just unbearable, in the forum, on Tunngle, and even in game some behave the worst way possible.
All of us can understand that you are having a bad day, yes it happens, sometimes days in a row, but please bear in mind we come here to play and relax, and not provide a place for you to vent.
Most of you do not even know the person on the other end of the "line" personally, so it's an indirect relationship. If you do not understand this then research it, your PC is not just for playing games, may it be if you where just playing games I would not be writing about this.

While you may say that outright rudeness, verbal assault, improper behavior are not the general rule, I do see a high increase in there appearance. Yes, small ones count as well the big ones.
I'm not going to say names (nicknames), nore am I going to point fingers, as I do know even I may be considered rude sometimes, but that's the way I am, I do not act, put on a public facade.

To make my point a little more clear, since we happily see a steady increase in the video production/replays of Fleet Operations I will point out some things that are rather disturbing here, and do bare in mind that there are the recorded ones, meaning really bad advertising. This is not the community I wish to be part of.

Please excuse my French (meaning harsh language - no offence), but it seems some only understand this "language" so ...

In replays where more then 2 commentators are "explaining the game" it would be more then appropriate to:

1st: actually discuss / ask the person, if he knows what the hell he is talking about (the ability to produce articulated sound is not considered speech) and even more so, to know if that person can actually say something relevant about that race/strategy etc

2nd: make sure that "this person" has at least some manners ? (for me this would be nr 1 !) perhaps even to make sure he is not a shouting self centered egomaniac (some self indulgence is understandable but for God's sake man chill the f*#k out), and yes that goes triple for the players whom are "performing"

3rd: take 2 minutes to coordinate what you will be "chatting" about : to be more specific do not speak at the same time at random, do some research on how it is, or rather should be done

And lastly, please bare in mind not all of the "viewers" are native English speakers, whatever the hell that means, and some do not even know Fleet Operations, nor the community, players, commentators, etc.
A small recommendation would be to explain some things properly, or to articulate, pronounce the thing you are talking about to the best of your ability, and not just saying some stuff as if you where choking someone.

I was under the false impression then when the 1st videos/replays appeared it was to advertise and to help us understand the game in all its aspects (strategy, mechanics etc) better and not to bolsters ones ego by showing off all the time.

I could go on, but I hope all understand at least partially what I'm addressing here.

I do emphasize that this language is not my daily spoken one, perhaps I have not chosen my words in the best possible way, but I do feel they will convey my, and others disappointment in the most relevant way.

If you have read all this, and feel offended, I am sorry, but that's something I can live with.

Truly disappointed
Dexter

P.S. - sorry, I know my spelling needs improvement

[evilelite2000]

posted on June 6th, 2011, 5:02 pm

Last edited by evilelite2000 on June 6th, 2011, 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Please do not take this the wrong way as i am only inquiring as to what your main dispute is right now.

Is it the general behaviour of people or just the replays which have been bothering you recently. I think you did a damn good job at writing considering you're French by the way, just want to clear this up before i give my opinion.

posted on June 6th, 2011, 5:15 pm

Dexter, your post is a travesty of bad English.  But, given the circumstances and the fact that it is not your native language I'll just leave it be.

Whatever else it may be, Fleet Ops is an online community, and a free one at that.  People need to be willing to accept a small amount of rudeness (or indifference that accidentally comes across as rudeness) from time to time.  It's part of being an open-door community.  I think overall we would rather have people complaining about their job sometimes than have people telling others they're not allowed to complain about their job.

Also yes, our replays are not always professional quality.  They are done for free, by non-professional volunteers for the entertainment of the community.  It's certainly nice that they help advertise the mod, but that isn't the primary reason they do it.

I'm sure there are some things our commentators can do better, and I can see you have some ideas.  So there are 2 things you can do:

1. Ask politely which replays make good examples for showing off the game.  We've got several hundred of em, some are bound to be better than others.

2. When you see something that bothers you, speak up THEN.  Post in the replay thread that it bothered you a bit and suggest a better way they could have handled it.  Every one of our commentators have proven that they're willing to listen to advice, but if you don't say anything they won't know you have a complaint.

At the end of the day, though, if you don't want to be part of the community then we don't want you to be part of it.  We always want to grow and improve, but it's very important in a small gaming community that everybody chooses to be there of their own volition.  We can't force you to stay against your will, and we won't try.

posted on June 6th, 2011, 5:17 pm

Please do not take this the wrong way as i am only inquiring as to what your main dispute is right now.

Is it the general behaviour of people or just the replays which have been bothering you recently. I think you did a damn good job at writing considering you're French by the way, just want to clear this up before i give my opinion.

- I think he's Scottish
But I could be wrong! I'm just sure that's what he told me.

Anyways, sorry to hear this Dexter.
Well to tell the truth I am a bit confused as what you are angry at, people in the replays, or just behavior in general?

Either way I hope it gets sorted.


P.S. And I know I'm not a shining example since I have been kinda blasting TCR in his recent Borg thread, but I just need to speak my mind.

posted on June 6th, 2011, 5:24 pm

I believe Dexter is Romanian .


  Erm, so I'm just a little curious as well ... you tried very hard (by the way your English seems just fine to me) to stay vague about the people to whom you're referring, but I'm not even sure what your point is.

 
  Are you saying that people doing replays along with the commentators need to chill out and not be so "know it all"?


  I think part of the reason the commentators like Yandon, Clint, Mal, and Ray like to bring in other people to commentate with them is to bring in some "color" to make the replays more interesting .  I could be wrong and I cannot speak FOR them, but given how frequently they like to bring in others to commentate with them I can imagine only that it's something they like.

 
 

posted on June 6th, 2011, 5:29 pm

Well Dexter.. I think you have some good points and suggestions, especially for the commentators coordinating their efforts better. However Tryptic has pretty much covered my view of this situation. I will offer these minor tidbits.

An open-door community means we will have all types of people with all types of personalities. Nobody is expected to be friends with everyone that would be ridiculous since some personalities just wont mesh well. I do believe we can get along and be tolerant and in the extreme cases choose to "turn the other cheek". Rather than point out peoples faults and request they change. But you can make the choice to communicate with the ones you have issue with, doing so via pm would be best, should you choose.

I hope you choose to stay, just remember the sins of a few do not represent the whole community.

posted on June 6th, 2011, 6:16 pm

I haven't played online yet, but just on the forums I would have to agree that the community does have something of a problem. I believe that the two major reasons are the size of the community and the community's insistence that it doesn't have a problem or that they can't (or shouldn't try to) fix it. It's the same attitude I've seen people have about bullying, something I had to put up with for more time than I care to mention; the attitude, 'sure it's bad, but it's not my problem.' The first step toward fixing the community's collective attitude is realizing that it's your problem too.

[evilelite2000]

posted on June 6th, 2011, 6:18 pm

Last edited by evilelite2000 on June 6th, 2011, 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ah, my bad. I took the "please excuse my French" part too literally. Seeing as other people have voiced their opinion i will respond as if you made two points.

1: General behaviour.

I can understand where you're coming from with this especially if you've been here a long time and seen everyone get along but this really is out of anyone's control other than the offender himself. I suppose the community could frown upon negative attitudes and behaviour more but that's the way some people are and you can't expect people to change their personality over a videogame.

So overall i don't think there's much anyone can do about this issue, if you have a problem with someone the best course of action is to just block them.


2: Replays.

I suppose what you're saying here is that replays arn't educational and instead are just to showcase someone beating someone which has the knock-on effect of 'bolstering their ego' as you put it. However, I do not think the replays were started with the intention of being educational and instead to be entertaining. There are some replays which were made with the intention of teaching which was boggz vs someone showcasing different races.

It's always a shame to see someone leave something on a bad note but that's just the way the world is.

posted on June 6th, 2011, 7:03 pm

Although I can see where you're coming from, Dexter, I agree with what my other forum-dwellers have said. Being an open-door, free community there's bound to be some rudeness, especially because of the language barrier.

posted on June 6th, 2011, 7:18 pm

Although I can see where you're coming from, Dexter, I agree with what my other forum-dwellers have said. Being an open-door, free community there's bound to be some rudeness, especially because of the language barrier.

Having said that i do actually agree that the taunting, rudeness and in some cases downright hostility is getting out of hand.

Some time ago (1-2 weeks.. don't exactly remember when) i myself shot my mouth off and made a taunt while i usually try to stay respectful at all times. At that moment majestic corrected/scolded me for reacting the way i did.
At the time i was seriously pissed off annoyed that i, the one who tried to stay respectful, got scolded on the one time i lost my temper.

And while to this day there are many who frequently taunt or use harsh/rude language a lot more often than myself, it was a sign on the wall that the behavior on the forum was slowly changing (and not improving) if even quiet, usually respectful, persons like myself start following that line of behavior.

It would be a good thing to look at our own behavior and not put the blame on "being an open community".
One can be an open community and at the same time stay respectful towards others even if one doesn't agree with that person's points of view/suggestions.

posted on June 6th, 2011, 8:47 pm

Guys, with respect this is so vague that I don't see much being accomplished by pointing out rudeness or elitism in general.  Dismissing the notion that larger open communities inherently become less personal is not wise in my opinion.  Internet anonymity naturally brings with it rudeness and incivility.  That can only be helped by rules or examples.  We have a remarkably civil environment here in my opinion and that will persist as long as (again, just in my opinion) some of the oldest members remain here to regulate by virtue of personality.  That may sound arrogant, but bare with me for a moment:


  I can be brash sometimes and can come down on people.  I've always admitted this.  Mostly, however, I encourage new players, help others out, answer questions, and scold those who pointlessly put down others.

  Dom, Mal, Tyler, Zebh, and many others share this attitude (again in my opinion) and help to create an environment where new players are encouraged to come online and get experience.  Without distinct rules and regulations (which the Devs have mentioned they are not fond of having to enforce), the civility of the Forums and Tunngle is left solely up the "pushing" of members that are known and respected to regulate.

  Again, I'm not trying to toot my horn or anyone else's (except maybe Mal's ), but trying to control behavior on the internet is like trying to wrestle a greased pig: it's always going to slip away from you.  My suggestion to you folks getting upset at this notion that the community is a nasty place: take steps to rectify it.  Be kind and helpful and people will follow suit.  Dexter has been around a long time and is a well-respected player.  He also has admitted that he at times takes too much of a "leader" position in team games and orders people around.  That's ok!  It's part of a team game!  Clint and I do the same thing sometimes!  It's how people improve and get better .

posted on June 6th, 2011, 9:21 pm

This is the internet... People really need to have a thicker skin...

Oh this person was rude, so what? Fleetops is by voluntary association only. Every community on the web is different. Comparing our "rudeness" to a forum like 'somethingawful' would make us look like saints. The vagueness of this post doesn't even help in addressing the supposed problems, it simply whines.

posted on June 6th, 2011, 9:56 pm

Comparing our "rudeness" to a forum like 'somethingawful' would make us look like saints.

Nah, they're not that bad. The chans, though, are a different thing... 

Now I would have to agree with Boggz - in most larger communities, shit happens. There will always be some rude guys hanging out. Plus a natural dose of elitism. It's kind of ironic that the fo veterans - those who really are experienced - are not as elitistic as some of the wanna-be veterans who are constantly whining or being rude to noobs (not looking at anyone). We can't do much about it, other than being good examples.

posted on June 6th, 2011, 9:56 pm

This is the internet... People really need to have a thicker skin...

Oh this person was rude, so what? Fleetops is by voluntary association only. Every community on the web is different. Comparing our "rudeness" to a forum like 'somethingawful' would make us look like saints. The vagueness of this post doesn't even help in addressing the supposed problems, it simply whines.

People need to have a thicker skin? really?  :(

Maybe other forums are far worse, but that doesn't relieve us of a responsibility to act mature.
Try to keep in mind that you won't like it if people are rude or hostile in real life so a little effort not to act rude/hostile towards others on the internet makes the net a friendlier place for all of us..

posted on June 6th, 2011, 10:16 pm

People need to have a thicker skin? really?  :(

Maybe other forums are far worse, but that doesn't relieve us of a responsibility to act mature.
Try to keep in mind that you won't like it if people are rude or hostile in real life so a little effort not to act rude/hostile towards others on the internet makes the net a friendlier place for all of us..

Yes, people need to have thicker skin.

  While it is immature to run down others rudely, it is also immature to have one's feelings hurt by simple things ESPECIALLY on the internet. 

  There is give and take.  We, the users of FleetOps, cannot prevent rude people from showing up and being a part of the community.  We also can only 'fix' rude people by individually refusing to play with those people until they change or by setting a better example.


  I question what a thread like this honestly is trying to achieve.