Return of the Transwarp Gate

posted on February 21st, 2013, 3:30 am

I was playing some FleetOps today, and I was loving the gameplay, as usual. After I moved a few ships through a wormhole, it occurred to me that it would be cool if the Borg could build Transwarp gates like they were able to in Armada II.

If a Transwarp gate was reimplemented, I assume that it would be pretty high up on the techtree- probably just as expensive as a borg cube. It would also be rather weak, forcing the borg to protect the structure.

It would also probably be exclusive to an avatar- possibly the 3rd Borg avatar. I have no idea what the avatar would be named though, maybe 'Directive: Expand'?

There would be a few obvious problems with implementing this:

-there isn't an analog for the 'transwarp gate' in any other race- and while some of the special stations in Armada II were pretty neat, some would need to be redesigned - like the kingon's, cardassian's, and romulan's "tiny suicidal ships that can destroy an entire starbase and its surrounding stations".


Any thoughts? Is this a good idea? Bad idea?


PS
I have no idea how this thread could become a gigantic debate about some obscure star trek fact, but let's not make it one!

posted on February 21st, 2013, 3:59 am

The Borg not having a Transwarp Gate (don't like the Transwarp Portal, just isn't canon and doesn't feel right) in FleetOps is the number one reason why I don't play as the Borg (at least when my FleetOps install would actually launch and now doesn't, but no one is offering help there...).

The Borg in my mod for STA2 (STA2_Generational) are just as string as they were in TNG, First Contact and Voyager (and somewhat technically the episode "Regeneration" in Enterprise). And the number one mod that I have for them is a Transwarp Network (Transwarp Gate) that I got at A2Files. In my opinion, without a Transwarp Network, the Borg just aren't the Borg.

This is the Borg Transwarp Network Mod that I use in the STA2_Generational Mod:
http://armada2.filefront.com/file/Borg_Transwarp_Hub;31557

There are others as well:
http://armada2.filefront.com/file/Borg_Transwarp_Hub;42384

I have found some in other full conversion mods that have redone the Borg as well.


Non-Finished Ones:
http://armada2.filefront.com/file/Transwarp_gate_hub_MESH_ONLY;89890
http://armada2.filefront.com/file/Transwarp_Portal_Station;57345

With all of these Transwarp Networks, I would add one to my install of FleetOps but that would make it incompatible with everyone else playing online. Plus I don't know how to directly add units into FleetOps in my opinion, the Devs made it extremely to complicated and the guide is confusing on that as well. So I'm desperately waiting for the Devs to include it with the Borg because the Borg just aren't the Borg without their primary transport station; it let them go almost anywheres in the entire galaxy after all. It's a mistake not to include it.

What is the verdict on having the Borg have a: Transwarp Network??

posted on February 21st, 2013, 4:36 am

i cant be bothered to get into a big debate but the borg are the borg without the transwarp gate and are not the borg with it, they are voyager plot borg...

The transwarp gate was never truly borg, it was plot filler to get voyager home and bring the series to an end...

When else was it ever mentioned or seen? Hell if they had a gate that popped out right into fed space why only ever send one cube on a long journey from the delta quadrant??? The transwarp gate is not borg and doesn't need to be in game... the borg ships can transwarp and it is faster than warp and doesn't require a gate...

posted on February 21st, 2013, 8:18 am

@Redmanmark86: You do raise an interesting point, i could be wrong but i thiught i heard of the Transwarp Network being mentioned in other episodes of Voyager and not just Endgame. i think it may have been mentiond and or hinted on in some TNG episodes as well. I can't think of any episodes right n the top of my head, but I'm sure they are there someplace.

It's highly possible that the Borg did he a Transwarp Network/Gate to dispatch the Cube the USS Enterprise NCC 1701-D encountered in Q Who, it's only speculation if or if it is or isn't the case, thus it's up to individual interpretation. Borg Cubes and Spheres have been seen generating their own Transwarp Portal and passing through it a few times, but that supposing has a distance limit.

It is just a theory I have, but given how its known that transwarp drives still have a limit to how long they can be used, i believe that the Borg created the Transwarp Network for the purpose of substaining Transwarp velocities for a greater distance and longer period of time. So if going by that theory Transwarp and the use of a Transwarp Network is only useful on a very big map, and correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the main maps in FleetOps not really that big? Wouldn't a Transwarp Network give a person playing as the Borg a major advantage over every other race, especially since you can choose the place for the exit appeture and that place could be right in the middle of an opponent's base? I know it's easy to do, I've done it well testing the Transwarp Network in my mod against 3 AI players on the Dante's World map.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Transwarp_hub

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Borg_transwarp_network

http://www.sttff.net/scitech/transwarp.html

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Transwarp_drive

http://wiki.bravofleet.com/index.php?title=Federation_transwarp_network


Given how the use of a Transwarp Network (or Transwarp Gate) can be abused in a game like STA2 and FleetOps, how would incorporating a Transwarp Network be beneficial to the Borg (to the people that play as the Borg)?

posted on February 21st, 2013, 5:56 pm

Haha thanks Y Wing Driver, your last sentence gave me a good laugh.

To turn away talk about whether or not is canon I'd like to say how I really enjoyed using the gate in Armada I, There is something really satisfying about being able to unleash some serious hurt on someone randomly. It would be good if the developers brought something in, but I'd say to balance it they'd have to make it so expensive and so weak that it would probably not get built in game.
Correct me if I am mistaken but transwarp exists as research ability that applies to some ships in fleet ops? I never used it as I always found it so useless and horrifically limited in range. I'd like it if the developers could make it better.

Any other thoughts on some cool fleet ops game play ideas?

posted on February 21st, 2013, 6:06 pm

I liked the Gateway, both the A2 gate and FO hub versions. Balance isn't much of a problem with the massive energy cost/recharge time and the fact that it's as dangerous to you as the enemy. One of the only A2 'Superweapons' actually worth building.

Correct me if I am mistaken but transwarp exists as research ability that applies to some ships in fleet ops? I never used it as I always found it so useless and horrifically limited in range.

Yeah, it's there. Borg standard tech and Romulan/Borg mixed-tech.

posted on February 21st, 2013, 6:33 pm

Is there a way it could be coded so that the exit gate couldn't be targeted within a certain radius of enemy stations?

posted on February 21st, 2013, 6:53 pm

I agree with what SquireJames said!

Is there a way it could be coded so that the exit gate couldn't be targeted within a certain radius of enemy stations?

If Transwarp, especially a Transwarp Network (or Transwarp Gate) exit appeture couldn't be used to directly target a base of operations or any lone outlying stations would be good.

Think of this scenario: (going by my STA2_Generational Mod since I did this there)

(1) Your opponent (the AI in this case) has a heavily fortified base of operations with two Klingon Fortresses (my new kbase.odf), a fully armed Orbital Defense Plateform orbiting one planet, 4 armed and cloakable Dilithium Mining Stations (with Multi-Targetting Phasers), 4 armed freighters, a standard shipyard and an advanced shipyard (both armed), and an outlying Outpost (the old stock Klingon starbase).

(2) You got a Transwarp Network with two apertures useable, and a fleet of 16 Borg Cubes and another with 16 Spheres and you send both fleets into that Klingon base.

(3) What would happen?

Note, the Klingons and the Borg have already researched everything possibly, access to all ships and some Negh'vars are in this base and both races have other ships all over the map.

posted on February 21st, 2013, 7:14 pm

(2) You got a Transwarp Network with two apertures useable, and a fleet of 16 Borg Cubes and another with 16 Spheres and you send both fleets into that Klingon base.

Fleet ops is a different game, 16 cubes is game over in of itself. However I can imagine that there would want to be some restriction on the function of the hub/gate. If it is super expensive to use and weak to attack then there might not be any concern about imposing restrictions on attacking a base as attacks will be rare.

Otherwise I am thinking maybe impose some sort of restriction on the amount of ships that can go through it.

posted on February 22nd, 2013, 2:54 am

I would imagine it would have a limit of one station for balance purposes. But if you have time to build 16 cubes the game is prolly over if you have a gate or not. If ever implimented the gate should have to stay there for a set amount of time, and should be useable by the enemy, so it would be a double edged sword, it could bring you victory, but if you use it and are unsuccessful the enemy could come through and counter attack your own base.

posted on February 22nd, 2013, 4:51 am

True Equinox1701e, but with my scenario, that wasn't a FleetOps scenario, it's with a modified stock game, my mod; 16 cubes wouldn't be considered game over there even though they are extremely powerful in my mod.

Always, if you're forgetting, the exit appeture to a Transwarp Network is just that an exit, no ship, Borg or another race's starship couldn't be able to go through the exit appeture and backtrack to the Networks originated point. They after all are always one way portals, at least in canon.

But if an enemy found the main entrance to the Network, namely the station itself and it has active portals any ship should be able to transverse the Network to its exit aperture of the portal it went through.

To bad there is no way to systicate a network, like the one used by the Federation in Star Trek Online. Remember what the inside of the portal looked like as the USS Voyager NCC 74565 traveled through it before being intercepted by the Sphere? There was like a conduit inside the portal that was shielded and once the shields controlled by the Unicomplex were disabled, Voyager was able to destroy the aperture with Transphasic Torpedoes.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Transwarp_aperture

posted on February 22nd, 2013, 4:57 am

I would imagine it would have a limit of one station for balance purposes. But if you have time to build 16 cubes the game is prolly over if you have a gate or not. If ever implimented the gate should have to stay there for a set amount of time, and should be useable by the enemy, so it would be a double edged sword, it could bring you victory, but if you use it and are unsuccessful the enemy could come through and counter attack your own base.

This is a great idea. Since FleetOps allows set #'s of buildings, it would only make sense to have one. The time idea is also great.

It would be good if the developers brought something in, but I'd say to balance it they'd have to make it so expensive and so weak that it would probably not get built in game.
Correct me if I am mistaken but transwarp exists as research ability that applies to some ships in fleet ops? I never used it as I always found it so useless and horrifically limited in range. I'd like it if the developers could make it better.

I also agree with this. It would need to be extremely weak. I agree that the transwarp research ability is rather limited in use- I always go with 'boarding' instead.

As far as other useful ideas for FleetOps, the Borg's Transwarp gate would need to be balanced by an equivalently powerful building in all other factions. I don't have any well thought out ideas, but off the top of my head...

Federation: I would love the (extensively disputed) gigantic mushroom shaped starbase. These would be able to build some highly specialized vessels (perhaps Steamrunners and Teutoburgs?)

Klingon: I have no good ideas here. Maybe some sort of 'weapon platform of mass destruction' like we saw in ST Legacy?

Romulan: The Romulans already have something like this, namely their Intelligence Center. It would just need to be... well, more useful. Perhaps the player could purchase upgrades.

Dominion: I have no good ideas here. People keep talking about some sort of building that allows the Dominion to build 'allied' vessels.

Anyone have any ideas for other types of stations?

posted on February 22nd, 2013, 6:59 am

I just thought of a better idea when it comes to a Transwarp Network, it doesn't really have to be used by just the Borg for a buildable unit, but instead as a non-playable unit that no one can build or destroy (at least destroy easily). That way all races can benefit from the network by controlling where you want to go.

Maybe with this idea, the Transwarp Network can be hidden in a nebula and for anyone to use it they have to locate it. Except the network needs to take up space so not one player can fortify its location and defend it for their own use.

It would be better than having to come up with a equivalent station for all the other races to balance the game out, because any equivalent station wouldn't really be able to counter the effects of a Transwarp Network (or Transwarp Gate) really especially if someone heavily defends it.

I keep thinking about ideas for a Transwarp Network and how too cook up a way to really use one for the Borg Collective.

posted on March 3rd, 2013, 4:28 am

I agree I miss the gate. What I would do is with the gate ability make it balanced as in it can't be used within a certain radius of a players base so they could not just send like 5 cubes in the middle of a base and game over that's way to unbalanced. For the other players if the borg gets a gate the other players should have the following. Feds- Like you said that giant star base limit 1 with say 3 times the firepower as a standard outpost and double back as a shipyard with a increased production speed. The romulans- Classified yard that could build 1 scimitar with special ability can fire while cloaked for 30 seconds. Klingons- Advanced upgrade center the klingons always find the cheapest ways to build ships as their economy was never very good so call this structure whatever but its effect is reduces construction costs of all ships by say 20% or whatever for balancing. Dominion- They already have the DN as mixed tech but perhaps advanced sensor array like in the show with better range than the current and like amazing detect cloak ability or make the DN buildable without mixed tech.

posted on May 2nd, 2013, 4:08 pm

hmm, interesting, I think the best plot device I can use as to why the Borg attacked 1ce every 40 years was because the transwarp portal could only warp x metric tons over x time. if we incorporate this into FO, it could maybe work without being too overpowered.
Edit: and since we're not willing to wait 40 years to play the game, no cubes (muhuhahaha btw this auto-corrects to Muhammad, just saying ) and it would also mean that nothing higher then spheres can go through without a ridiculously long waiting time. and see as this is very late game we're talking about, single spheres wouldn't do much damage by comparison, unless it's a really big map and for some reason the opponent's fleet is on the opposite side of the map, in which case you don't need the transwarp.
So if we say the gate's 1 way, the sphere gets obliterated.
if the portal's 2 ways, it should have to stay open long enough for the enemy fleet to move through.
* balanced *
well, about as balanced as a fed's warp-in
Edit 2: or make it into a super awesome map object like the argus array