The Heck out of Dodge!

posted on March 15th, 2010, 3:17 am

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opf1r_DFAFQ&feature=grec ]YouTube
- StarCraft II Beta - Crota vs Ashram on Metalopolis Zerg vs Terran High Quality HD[/url] @3:00

I'm not the only one! (or two)

posted on March 15th, 2010, 6:09 am

Haha he actually talks in a similar manner, only much faster because it's Starcraft and it's all about number and hard counters .

  If it were myself doing it there would be SO many bad words flying around!

posted on March 15th, 2010, 11:26 am

Sean Plott - live streaming video powered by Livestream
i really like this guys commentary and analysis but no 'The Heck out of Dodge!' in any vids i watched

it's all about number and hard counters .

wrong . its about thinking, being fast and spending countless hours on mastering ur BO and micro

posted on March 15th, 2010, 4:43 pm

its about thinking, being fast and spending countless hours on mastering ur BO and micro

  I respectfully disagree.

  Starcraft and Warcraft are very inflexible gamestyles.  You decide a strat, you scout and hope that your opponent chose what you countered, and if they didn't you desperately try to re-adjust your strat in time before they roll your base.  They are no "balanced fleets" in Starcraft .  It's spam one thing with a FEW specialized units in backup and hope you countered your opponent.

  In that replay:  The Zerg didn't see what the Terran was building.  The Banshees easily hard countered the Zerg choice.  There was no real battle.  Just a massacre.  I call that Hard-countering.

  And yes, he said "heck out of dodge" towards the beginning.  Pretty sure it's when the SCV is scouting and got eaten by the Queen.

posted on March 15th, 2010, 8:42 pm

i like sc a lot so i feel vary alone on this forum therefore i'll try to be as offensive, but still well mannered, as i can be. hope u wont mind

Starcraft and Warcraft are very inflexible gamestyles.

fail, sheer number of strategies/BO/tricks/mindgames that can be used in sc beats most other rts. saying its inflexible is like saying u dont believe in gravity. please refer to this link for further reading

You decide a strat, you scout and hope that your opponent chose what you countered, and if they didn't you desperately try to re-adjust your strat in time before they roll your base.  They are no "balanced fleets" in Starcraft .

yea, right. there r just balanced armies.

It's spam one thing with a FEW specialized units in backup and hope you countered your opponent.

having 1-2 types of units as backbone of ur army (65-75%) is not spam. there are usually a few transitions in sc like zergling->mutalisks->guardian. relaying on hope while playing sc is a sign of being really bad at it . good players are always ready for ur attack. if sb thinks like this:
'i'll just rush with zerglings, if he's not ready for it i win, otherwise i lose'
he's a terrible sc player.

In that replay:  The Zerg didn't see what the Terran was building.  The Banshees easily hard countered the Zerg choice.  There was no real battle.  Just a massacre.  I call that Hard-countering.

i call that bad scouting. scouting in FO might be not very important but in sc scouting and knowing what ur enemy is doing is crucial. if sb fails to scout he loses... usually.

to sum up. low level sc play -> build something, send it to ur opponent and see what he can do about it. high level play -> a lot more.

posted on March 15th, 2010, 8:59 pm

I have to say, maybe with some factions (cough, Mayson) or some strats (current spamming) scouting can be unimportant - but scouting has always been important, and will become ever more important in the next patches as balance becomes better

posted on March 16th, 2010, 1:25 am

Sorry Tom but I cannot agree that Starcraft is a flexible game.  I've played many many RTS games and Warcraft/Starcraft are two of the most simple.


  It is full of Hard Counters.
  I didn't say spam was bad, I just said that having a single core unit and 1 other backup is boring to me.  And yes, it is spam because that's what it was programmed to be   (Hydralisk, anyone?)
  So he didn't scout enough and he lost.  The need to scout does not make the game complicated or anything more than a test of hard-counters.  Overall the gameplay is rigid and pre-determined.

  All RTS games are generally a pre-determined outcome based on what choices the player makes.  Those choices alone are the only variables throughout the game.  Fleetops will get some interesting map events and random occurences.  THOSE would be non-predetermined outcomes.


  Anyway ... In head-to-head play for WC and SC, the winner is whomever gets the right counter and doesn't suck at using them.  Even the best players out there (those crazy Korean kids) have a difficult time adjusting their strategy if they get hard-countered.  It's not more complex, it's just FASTER .

  Fleetops is a relatively slower game pace.  Thank god it is because the only time when you need to be building and ordering REALLY fast is in a protracted battle or in small skirmishes.

posted on March 16th, 2010, 1:38 am

yes, i figured u would not approve its like an anarchist having an argument with a fascist -> no point.

one last thing. could u tell me what is the best rts title in ur opinion (besides FO that is )

posted on March 16th, 2010, 1:39 am

age of empires 2/ rise of nations (are you asking everyone or just boggz?)

posted on March 16th, 2010, 1:49 am

age of empires 2/ rise of nations (are you asking everyone or just boggz?)

boggz, but after u mentioned it i'm tickled to create a little poll

posted on March 16th, 2010, 1:53 am

Don't forget to add Billy Bob Thornton's Real Time Adventure Strategy Game!  It's my favorite RTS!

posted on March 16th, 2010, 1:55 am

yes, i figured u would not approve its like an anarchist having an argument with a fascist -> no point.

Which one am I ?  :D

one last thing. could u tell me what is the best rts title in ur opinion (besides FO that is )

 If this is to call me out and go "haha well if you think THAT'S the best clearly you're a moron!!!" then no thanks .

 But the one that I've actually enjoyed the most was a heavily modified version of Total Annihilation, then I downloaded the fan-made (and SUPER cool) truly 3D and beefed up version called Spring.  I don't know if I'd call it the BEST.  In fact no, I wouldn't, but it's certainly the one that I enjoyed most when I was growing up .

posted on March 16th, 2010, 2:02 am

Which one am I ?  :D

which one would u like to be?

 If this is to call me out and go "haha well if you think THAT'S the best clearly you're a moron!!!" then no thanks .

nice dodge but honestly i was just curious. in case u r wondering i dont consider sc to be 'the best' rts. most competitive, maybe, but not the best

posted on March 16th, 2010, 3:36 am

Hey, no Starcraft bashing in my thread! I like Starcraft and I like FleetOps. If you have an opinion that disagrees with mine, you're obviously wrong. (But don't worry, I'll forgive you for your imperfections. 'cause I'm nice like that.) 

posted on March 16th, 2010, 3:52 am

which one would u like to be?
nice dodge but honestly i was just curious. in case u r wondering i dont consider sc to be 'the best' rts. most competitive, maybe, but not the best

  Oh I totally agree that SC is one of (if not the most) competetive out there.  I do think that part of why it's SO popular is because it's so fast, so well balanced, and so simple.