Patch Project Patch and Vanilla Ultimate Mod

posted on August 23rd, 2010, 3:15 am

there are no reports of the Patch Project being incompatible with anything. As these statements pop up from time to time with nobody giving a reason or a more precise statement what actually is incompatible, i wouldn't give too much on them

Before posting links in forums that contain material which you dont have the right to publish for, it would be wise to contact the original creator first, and not the forum administrator. Major A Payne has no authority allowing you to release Fleet Operations material. More infos can be found in the Modding guidelines in the modding subforum

"I just want to say that because this mod is actually a college project, the studnets in class including me have the protection of Education on our side when it comes to posting files and such online, especially when the proffessor actually has to be able to get at them and to also see what type of help was offered." With that in mind and that I heard it from the proffessor, I'm in the postion to believe that I've been in my legal right if you can find where by Educational Law that my proffessor is wrong, I'll then not post anything "created" by Fleet Ops.


PS. I'll try the patch and see what happens and get back to you on that. I'll just back up my mod first before I install it. I hope doing it that way will work.

posted on August 23rd, 2010, 3:41 am

... and the Devs have the protection of law on their side . This is not up for discussion mate - it is not in your legal right to post files if the Devs - whose material this is - say it is not. This is simple copyright law and it is best if you adhere to that as a law-abiding citizen. "Education" is not a legal entity - you can do things in "the name of god", but it has no legal bearing unless sanctioned by the legal system in question. That is why Law exists. This is why people who make protected material that is then pirated have the right to pursue any and all legal recourse. I suggest you look up German copyright law before going any further .

posted on August 23rd, 2010, 3:52 am

I believe i see why you arent making any friends at a2 files. Using your logic a music student could post a whole bunch of copyrighted music on the internet and simply say that its for "research" see how well that flies with publishers lawyers..

posted on August 23rd, 2010, 3:59 am

... and the Devs have the protection of law on their side . This is not up for discussion mate - it is not in your legal right to post files if the Devs - whose material this is - say it is not. This is simple copyright law and it is best if you adhere to that as a law-abiding citizen. "Education" is not a legal entity - you can do things in "the name of god", but it has no legal bearing unless sanctioned by the legal system in question. That is why Law exists. This is why people who make protected material that is then pirated have the right to pursue any and all legal recourse. I suggest you look up German copyright law before going any further .

First of all, I'm not German and that law wouldn't apply to a US citizen unless they were in Germany and since I'm not, its a no go for such a thing. In the US, Education is protected by law, so there are rights in that to students. Unless the Devs has a Copyright License that is. Then it should be published on the site or something or included in the mods.

posted on August 23rd, 2010, 4:01 am

I believe i see why you arent making any friends at a2 files. Using your logic a music student could post a whole bunch of copyrighted music on the internet and simply say that its for "research" see how well that flies with publishers lawyers..

Ever hear of Limewire? That is already done, and many of it is leagal. Lets just forget this though and work on fixing the problems in my mod because this is the reason why I'm not releasing it.

posted on August 23rd, 2010, 4:50 am

Yeah Limewire is fine but if you are d/l copyrighted files its not, anyway i was using it as an example. And they are in Germany. These are the modding rules read them.
Star Trek Armada II: Fleet Operations - Moding Guidelines

posted on August 23rd, 2010, 7:33 am

Hey there. I think I can help some of the errors, but by the sounds of it most of these are caused by incompatibility issues and overwrites caused by combining so many mods. Sometimes when multiple mods are combined into A2 (most notably anything that adds a full race), it might overwrite files from other mods and mess up a whole bunch of things unless you do some careful editing to files before installing them. I also read that you copied the dominion base from FO into A2, by that do you mean you copied the odf directly into A2? If so, there's lots of FO specific commands in the odf that do not work in A2 and that's probably the source of crashes in regards to anything dominion. Virtually every .odf file from FO will mess up A2 if copied over.

The only issue you have that I know I can solve for sure is making Species 8472 an NPC race. In the races.odf file keep them uncommented, they have to be in there. Just completely remove the command line "instantactionslot = #" in species8472.odf. If that doesn't work then I am afraid that the combo of so many different mods has probably overwritten so many files from each other that the odf's have become a mess.

When it comes to combining different mods, there are several things I would check for before copying the files and pasting them into A2:

1) Check the files in the mods you are installing and see if they have any of the same files. (For instance if you are installing "Full Race mod A" and "Full Race mod B" they might both use the global.spr file.

2) If they do use the same files, copy whatever is different in both versions of the file and add it into a new file of the same name. That way when you install the various mods the files will not constantly be overwriting each other, rather you'll have those files with combined commands instead of overwritten commands. It's a long process but it avoids the overwriting issues.

3) Just mod Fleet Ops instead of A2. I personally find a lot of the features in Fleet Ops much more useful then stock A2 to be honest.

I thought I had said how I added the Dominion files from Fleet Ops into my mod, I used ODF files from The Dominion Ultimate Mods as my base and only changed the names and used the hard points only from Fleet Ops. Everything except the ODF files, meaning the SODs and the Textures were the only things used from Fleet Ops.  I did put the Special Weapons and regular Weapon files into their corresponding folders the way they were from Fleet Ops but they technically weren’t going to be used except the Special Weapons but those files still need to be edited, renamed and maybe actually will be regular Dominion Ultimate Weapons made to be slightly stronger.
When it comes to Species 8472, they are unmodded and just removed from the Races File to make them unplayable, your idea to remove the command line still caused a crash when trying to set Species 8472 Units into the game map and I believe they are still causing the crashing problem for any mission that they are featured in. Also I’m not sure if you are right on the game crashing with Species 8472 started crashing in the game way before any mod was actually added to the game because removing them as a playable race was the first thing that was done in the game prior to starting to mod it and that crashing problem also started prior to any mods being added to the game.  This would make the combination of different mods added to the game not effecting Species 8472 and makes it unrelated to the other crashing problems, or at least I would think that would be the logical course of thinking. I am also wondering why Species 8472 has to be in the Races file because in other mods that I’ve seen that don’t have them as a Playable Race don’t have them in the Race.odf file but they are still located in the game because they still appeared in the missions that they were originally featured in but I haven’t been able to get a hold of any of those modders who have created those conversion mods that still have them, but from playing those mods I know they didn’t crash the game.
I believe that I’d have to confess that I don’t know what you mean about the ODF Files becoming a mess because I have been really careful about what kinds of files I actually replace and none have been related to any of the functions of the Trading Stations or the Cargo ships because those type of stations have been untouched except two months ago I changed the Federation Trading Station to replace it with the K7 Station in the TMP Starfleet Mod and right after replacing the ODF for the station, the SOD file and putting in the new textures, the game wasn’t crashing involving any of the Trading Stations. This crashing problem with the Trading Stations started happening after using the Star Trek Armada II Improvement Mod found at Armada Fleet Command, this mod didn’t have any contact information for its creator in the Read Me that went with it and the comments section for the mod didn’t mention any  complaints. All that that mod did was to arm the Trading Stations and Research Stations of all the stock races and also actually added the code to build inside the nebulas, this I removed from the files that I edited because I thought that that was the reason why the Federation’s Second Campaign was crashing but then when I realized I was wrong, I was curious so I tested the edited Stations in the Map Editor and that’s when I found out that the commands that make the Trading Stations start the trading process (and the same for the Cargo Ships) is missing from the station. Well playing the stations in the Map Editor, the game didn’t crash.
1. Every time I add a Full Race Mod or any mod that has its own GUI_global or Techtree files,  I manually search for the item or the race and copy and paste the information into my mods (when I say mod or even personal mod, I mean class project but I use what everyone is used to when referring to it). I don’t use auto-installers instead I install mods to a separate new folder and then I save that file for any references to the mod if needed later. (Every modder that I’ve ever asked for help from has told me the same thing to never use the auto-installers and to put those mods into a separate file, it was and still is good advice and I use it every day whenever I get any new mods for my game, I even did the same when I was going through all of the Fleet Ops mods because originally I was looking for a certain Dominion Shipyard that was featured in a POTD Picture on Armada2Files. It was a shipyard that I really wanted to get to replace the existing shipyards for the Dominion in the Dominion Ultimate Mods. If there are any files that are ever going to be overwritten, I don’t allow that to happen, instead I copy my games files to the desktop and add the required information (if the files haven’t been edited before they need this kind of treatment otherwise the editing happens without copying the file) This is exactly what “The Undying Nephalim” said in to do in his number 2 part in his reply and I always have done that since my first day at modding the game.
2.  As I said in #1, if any mod I’m using shares a file with my mod, I already do what you have said and transfer the information to the files manually. This is the only way to officially add the ships or stations and weapons into the game because I don’t want to lose what I have already added.
3. On Armada2Files I have found that not many people don’t actually use Fleet Ops and the ones that do also have a regular version of Star Trek Armada II to mod because of the way the ODF files are set in Fleet Ops it is harder to mod because the code is actually different. Actually other modders have told me that if you’re going to mod Armada it is just best and easier to stay away from Fleet Ops and to not mod it. I have to say that I agree with this but it is because of a different reason. I don’t want to play a Star Trek Armada II game that doesn’t have any of the Campaign Missions because I actually rather play against the AI in Instant Action. That is actually why I have chosen to use Vanilla Ultimate in my game because it has in my opinion better graphics that can rival that of Fleet Ops (and I say this because many POTD comments I have seen at A2Files have people lowering their ratings for the Picture because it is Fleet Ops, they do the same for stock Armada II but pictures that don’t involve Fleet Ops get better ratings.) (Sorry to go against Fleet Ops, but I’m only stating what I have been told by other modders and have also seen with my own two eyes.)
Either way, I am not switching to Fleet Ops to mod that instead because its alright the way it is because in my opinion Star Trek Armada II isn’t all about facing people online that you don’t even know because to do that the game is limited to only playing people that have the same mod as you (meaning some people are forced to have to use mods that they most likely don’t want to use or to have more than one on their computer to just play online. Instead of having to have more than one install of Armada II on my laptop, I would like to create something that all the mods and total conversions that I’ve seen don’t do, create a contender for a Star Trek Armada III and to do this I’ll be even making a Fourth Campaign by removing the Tutorials from the game.  I hate to admit it, but you are the first person that I’ve actually heard say that they actually like Fleet Ops, but for Armada II to be good or even great, it doesn’t need all the fancy additions from Fleet Ops to be honesty, just because it has “nice” features doesn’t mean that we all have to use it especially when many of the cool new mods aren’t even directed to Fleet Ops and it makes it even harder to make them compatible.
Plus Fleet Ops is missing many of the important Races for “Star Trek Armada II: The Ultimate All Races Mod” Here are the featured Races:

1. The United Federation of Planets
2. The Klingon Empire
3. The Romulan Star Empire
4. The Remans (thanks to the Reman Rebellion Mods)
5. The Cardassian Union
6. The Dominion (Combined with the Breen)
7. The Tholians
8. The Vulcans
9. The Borg
10. The Gorn

Then you got these Unplayable Races that are also not in Fleet Ops:
11. Species 8472
12. Some Races from the Delta Quadrant combined into a group called- “Delta”
13. The Ferengi (at least a few extra units)
14. The Sernaix (when their released with the Future Tense Mod for Armada I, because I’m good at adding Armada I mods to Armada II)
15. The Son’a
16. The Suliban
17. The Xindi

All of the Non-Playable Races are going to be like the Ferengi in Star Trek Armada II right now, they are going to be featured as map units that will make certain missions harder to complete. This should be possible to make them like the Ferengi because the Ferengi aren’t in the Race.odf file but are in the game on their own (unless you have a Ferengi Full Race Mod in your game).

posted on August 23rd, 2010, 7:48 am

ok project upgrade vanilla ultiamte and pp1.25 do work together its just that a fair few ppl experienced issues with pp 1.25 but i use those 2 mods in all my stock a2 installs

By any chance, what were the issues that people exsperienced with Vanilla Ultimate and the Patch Project 1.2.5 Patch?

[Optec]

posted on August 23rd, 2010, 8:35 am

Last edited by Optec on August 23rd, 2010, 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

actually its the other way round. you are not German and the US-Educational-Law whatever it allows does not apply to FO material.

But besides law and all this stuff, it is just a hell of unfriendly action to publish something which is not your work. Even a student work can not be published because its educational. I would request not to do so. Thanks. You are of course free to use the material in your work, but you are not allowed to publish it.
Posting something in a public web forum (like armada fleet command or here) IS publishing.

Let me clarify. You are of course allowed to use the stuff in your students work (as long as you dont say you made it, but I'm sure your Prof will watch about that either way ), but please dont release it to the public

I'm neither going to close this topic or ban somebody. Thats not how we deal with stuff. But i would like you to respect our wishes. There are a lot of people working hard on Fleet Operations, and some of them want their work to be FO-exclusive. Your package contains such material

posted on August 24th, 2010, 3:20 am

actually its the other way round. you are not German and the US-Educational-Law whatever it allows does not apply to FO material.

But besides law and all this stuff, it is just a hell of unfriendly action to publish something which is not your work. Even a student work can not be published because its educational. I would request not to do so. Thanks. You are of course free to use the material in your work, but you are not allowed to publish it.
Posting something in a public web forum (like armada fleet command or here) IS publishing.

Let me clarify. You are of course allowed to use the stuff in your students work (as long as you dont say you made it, but I'm sure your Prof will watch about that either way ), but please dont release it to the public

I'm neither going to close this topic or ban somebody. Thats not how we deal with stuff. But i would like you to respect our wishes. There are a lot of people working hard on Fleet Operations, and some of them want their work to be FO-exclusive. Your package contains such material

You do have a problem then about not releasing it to the public because part of our class assignment requires to seek out help from those that know the game and are also active in modding it and then giving them the ability to help with any and all problems that the professor doesn't know such as Star Trek Armada II in this case (since it is my chosen game). To get the required help with the game it isn't enough for those that will help other people out to read about the problem, but to also have a hands on approach to solving the problem, thus the only way to do that is to either post a link on a forum related to the modding community and its game or to e-mail it to many different modders then to be stuck with the same thing happening all the time, not getting a reply back, the e-mail bouncing back or the hassle of having to send the file or its link more than one to the many different people that will help. Like Professor Parker has written in her syllabus, posting a link is the option to go and as the students, we are in our legal rights to do s because of the fact higher education is required for one thing to get many different jobs thus companies automatically having given permission for their products, software and even programs to be used. Microsoft does it, and is just one of many examples. Because companies allow it that is what is protected. For a file or anything to not be posted it either has to belong to a company that doesn't have that permission given to any Educational Body/Institution or the sole owner of it has to actually have purchased the copyright. Since Star Trek and any games associated with it are property of their company that created it, the legal rights automatically come from Activison and not those who have modded the game, created a mod or took the liberty of changing code like used in Fleet Ops because all in the end, it isn't their property to start out with but already still belongs to Activison alone.

Sincerely Kathleen Parker & jetnova16.

Hello, everyone, this is jetnova16 again, I was allowing my proffessor to speak to everyone here with her thoughts, well some of them I don't agree with, as her student I have to abide by them.  as if I've been assimilated. . I will though respect your wishes but that can only work if someone is actually going to take alook at the files or someone on Fleet Ops actually cna help with the problems by e-mailing the lins of the mods problems directly to them ,trhat way files by the Fleet Ops Team isn't going to be posted in the forums for anyone to get at. After all some of these problems that are occuring in the game are not going to be fixed by me trying to explain them to everyone in the community because like Mrs. Parker said, a hands on approach wil get things solved quicker if anyone is willing to help with that, please let me know through a private message then becasue I actually rateher follow the rules that the community has here than actually have to break them to even get any help at all, that's why I think the best thing to do is to drop this whole thing about laws and let bygons be bygons.

posted on August 24th, 2010, 3:24 am

Can we please get back to the problems at hand with the game because they are actually making it harder to mod the game and to even keep a time table for this project at all and I'm now at the point where starting over is going to be very very bad because even though I want to create this mod no matter what, my class is set to end in December at the end of the semester.

****Many of the problems have been actually stated in some of my previous posts but there hasn't been any discussion about them or any ideas flying around for me to try out" 

posted on August 24th, 2010, 6:38 am

yea as said before, as long as you dont release the stuff to the public, we are fine. Personal mods are always welcome. The archive posted here is not the big problem, as you did not really intend to release it either way (it has a clear character of a "help me" request ), i just had the imagination you were working a mod you want to release.

[Majestic]

posted on August 24th, 2010, 8:13 am

Last edited by Majestic on August 24th, 2010, 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

I can't get back to the forums on filefront or armada2files because they keep banning me over there, the same thing happened at MSFC and the thing is I'm just trying to get help with my game to make a personal mod to be prood of that I was hoping to release to the Armada II Community but I've always been met with rudness because no one is even believing me when it comes to the crashings that I'm exsperiencing with my game even though I see them happening right in front of my eyes.

---

All I am going to say about this is you conveniently forgot to add the threats of legal action towards both sites and their staff by yourself, the personal and legal threatening attacks on the people whom banned you and the down right demands for help expecting people to do the work for you.

All of this behaviour is unbecoming of a member of any community and thus you were banned after many attempts by all of us to try and reason with you and help you to the best of our ability. Ban evasion too didn't serve you too well either, at least on MSFC.

You should know that hitting someone in the back such as this is bound to be found out by those your are accusing, especially in a community as small of A2.

Before you start claiming you have so wrongly been treated, you might want to disclose to the members here the full truth that your terrible and disgusting behaviour was the reason you were banned and not the reason you stated above. Many people here are members of both sites and know we don't treat people as you have claimed.

Now don't bother replying, as like your harassing emails I get every so often demanding you be unbanned from MSFC, I will be ignoring anything you post or say about me or the situation you have once again brought up. Have a nice day.

posted on August 24th, 2010, 12:13 pm

Just some more friendly advice for Jet as well.  You may get more assistance if you stop posting massive amounts of text with each post.  Keep to the basics of what the problem is and what you need.  This will mean anyone who is willing and can help is more likely to take the time to read about your problems.

Also keep in mind that anyone offering to help you is doing so out of the goodness of their heart.  They are in no way obliged to help you or in any way responsible for the success or failure of your school project.

posted on August 24th, 2010, 1:41 pm

Just some more friendly advice for Jet as well.  You may get more assistance if you stop posting massive amounts of text with each post.  Keep to the basics of what the problem is and what you need.  This will mean anyone who is willing and can help is more likely to take the time to read about your problems.

Also keep in mind that anyone offering to help you is doing so out of the goodness of their heart.  They are in no way obliged to help you or in any way responsible for the success or failure of your school project.

No kidding.