Command Cube at Wolf 359???

posted on June 7th, 2010, 5:43 pm

In the apocrypha section of the guide, in Intelligence Report:Borg Collective, the paragraph talking about the Command Cube mentions it destroying "...39 starships in its attempt to assimilate Earth", obviously talking about Wolf 359.

In TNG it was very clear however, that that was a normal Cube, specifically said to be the same dimensions as the Cube the Enterprise had previously encountered, the Cube that was the first appearance of the Cube class of Borg ship. Official and Canon both agree it is a regular Cube, not a Command Cube.

As I recall, Fleet Ops timeline changes midway through Voyager, which is after TNG. Therefore canon of TNG still applies, and the Guide needs a slight correction.

posted on June 7th, 2010, 5:47 pm

firstly, the ship seen at j-25 was never said to be different from the one in BoBW, so its quite possible they were the same ship, i am of this opinion, i believe it was on its way to earth at warp speed dropping transwarp conduits for future use.

secondly that ship was only ever called a cube by humans. just because it was cube shaped lol. they never said it was normal cube or command cube or anything.

thirdly the cubes in voyager are smaller and weaker than the cube in BoBW (and the later cube in first contact). that is why the devs have made the decision to call the voyager cubes (which we see more of) as normal cubes. and the cubes sent to attack earth as command cubes, more powerful cubes capable of performing the jobs of several normal cubes working together.

i like this decision made by the devs. its not canon its just the best guess we can make based on inconsistent canon. as we cant deny that the cubes in voyager were much weaker than those from BoBW and FC.

posted on June 7th, 2010, 5:49 pm

TNG made it clear that it was a Cube and may have been the same one. They never mentioned the type of the Cube or any specifics about the design.

The guide is fine as it is.

Ninja'd by Myles...

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on June 7th, 2010, 5:54 pm

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on June 7th, 2010, 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

As far as humans calling it a Cube, well that's where we got the designation of Cube, Borg didn't refer to it as such until Voyager I think (which would help the "it's actually a Command Cube" argument.)

The Voyager Cubes were weaker? The only times we saw Cubes in combat was vs. Species 8472 (who have VERY powerful weaponry) and Voyager with transphasic torpedoes (complete ass-pull to end the series.) I think they were just as strong, but got overwhelmed by lame plot devices. FC Cube was the same way, it was treated just like the Cube from BoBW, until Picard pulled out an "attack its weak spot" from his rear.

So Fleet Ops canon actually diverges in TNG? That would solve any canon issues.

They mentioned it had the exact same dimensions, so probably not the same one, but definitely same design (at least on the outside.)

EDIT: Ninja'd by Tyler, added last paragraph.

posted on June 7th, 2010, 6:10 pm

fleet ops canon splits before voyager returns, but after it leaves. so its during voyager.

plus we did see voyager cubes in combat. the delta flyer took on  one of them, still lost but took out some systems.

we saw in unimatrix zero a tactical cube going up against voyager, it got several good shots on voyager, even with tuvok's knowledge and still couldnt blow it up before they could retreat.

the cubes in voyager were much weaker than the BoBW and FC cubes. the command cubes could take on fleets, while the voyager cubes were much weaker, struggling to handle voyager. the borg suffered major villain decay in voyager.

posted on June 7th, 2010, 6:12 pm

The Cube from BobW and FC could 1-shot Starfleet ships (including Akira Class). Neither of the 2 Cube varients in Voyager could do the same to the title ship (which should be weaker than an Akira), even a Tactical Cube.

Despite being plot protection, what happened onscreen is still canon.

posted on June 7th, 2010, 6:12 pm

The Voyager Cubes were weaker? The only times we saw Cubes in combat was vs. Species 8472 (who have VERY powerful weaponry) and Voyager with transphasic torpedoes (complete ass-pull to end the series.) I think they were just as strong, but got overwhelmed by lame plot devices. FC Cube was the same way, it was treated just like the Cube from BoBW, until Picard pulled out an "attack its weak spot" from his rear.

The problem is that the Cubes in Voyager appear to be smaller. Think about it when in Q Who and BobW the Enterprise D faced the huge vessel, while the Voyager (while being alot smaller than  a Galaxy-class vessel) had confrontations with cubes which had similar size dimension differencies to the Intrepid-class like the original TNG-cube had to a Galaxy (the only exception is the tactical cube featured in UM 0).

posted on June 7th, 2010, 8:10 pm

Voyager is both state of the art and not to mention it was boosted in system performance by the Borg themseles from Scorpion and by One in Drone plus a million other episodes where they mess with the ship. The ship can not be classed as a standard intrepid guys, its specs could be anywhere close to a Borg sphere itself. Best thing to do is not to use voyager as an example the cubes they faces were normal because we saw them assimilate other vessels and races etc plus the borg wouldnt send 15 scout cubes vs 8472 battleships so : ) Yeah just presume the specs of voyager are closer or above that of a severeign guys seven enhanced it, the borg enhanced it themselves, One enhanced both shields and weapons etc.

[Tyler]

posted on June 7th, 2010, 8:16 pm

Last edited by Tyler on June 7th, 2010, 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

State of the art doesn't mean strongest defence, only that it's the most advanced, and a ship can only be upgraded so far. Voyager proved tactically inferior to quite a few DQ ships and lost shields unusually easy.

That woyuld imply there are quite a number of DQ races stronger than the Borg. It's pointless to argue Voyagers strength because it's all plot, even if it's canon.

posted on June 7th, 2010, 8:29 pm

what about the voyager episode that had the woman who was assimilated in wolf 359 but them magically appeared on a distant planet  in the delta quadrant?? Do the borg posses some sort of transport technology that transports drones off dying cubes???

posted on June 7th, 2010, 8:32 pm

lol that was funny. maybe a sphere launched after wolf 359 but before earth, carrying the drones back for further study/voyager plot devices.

posted on June 7th, 2010, 8:33 pm

A theory about that suggests that they had a second ship (possibly a Sphere, similar to FC) that took potential new drones back to the DQ while the Cube went to Earth, never meeting the Enterprise. It helps that we rarely saw the Cube, since most of the episode was on Enterprise.

The possibility of sending an Assimilated ship back to the quadrent (refitted along the way) also exists. We never saw all 39 ships in the grave.

Ninja'd again...

posted on June 7th, 2010, 8:56 pm

It's pointless to argue with Voyager strength... they had a lot more Problems with the Kazon than the whole Collective...
The only thing that could be taken is, that the Cubes in Voyager appear to be smaller ones... so the BobW and FC Cubes beeing much bigger can be accounted to them being Command/Invasion Cubes...

posted on June 8th, 2010, 3:15 pm

what if they were the "Queens" Cube??  after all the queen was on both cubes  *according to picard's flash back*

that's why the cube was big compared to other cubes

posted on June 8th, 2010, 3:20 pm

The queen is not really relevant to the FO timeline - she's there, she's just not some uber important dominatrix figure.