borg too powerful

posted on January 21st, 2009, 10:18 pm

I never said I was the best player, I'm not blowing my trumpets. I was simply defending the Borg (which pertains to the topic). I have played quite a few people on this forums (e.i. most except for the Fleet Ops team themselves. Go ahead and ask Archeon, who continually defeats me when I play as Dom as he's a pro with the Romulans (and quite honestly I think he is the best all around player), but he can agree that I am good with Borg since I mop him up with them.

EDIT: And it seems the comment this was a reply to has vanished. Oh well.

i agreed with u man.

posted on January 21st, 2009, 10:18 pm

I guess there's only one way for me to help my case that the Borg are fine with the exception of Nanites. Anyone who has Hamachi join channel Fleetops V3, password 123. I'm up for a game.

would gladly join but it's full

posted on January 21st, 2009, 11:08 pm

The borg are not too powerful.  They are very powerful but realistically so. Early on in the game they can be easily defeated as they build up slow.  If you take them out before they get cubes they aren't that hard to beat.

I think the nanites should be scaled down a tad though.

posted on January 22nd, 2009, 3:53 am

Alright, cbosdell, deathclaw, and I experimented with the Borg vs other races. cbosdell and I did a 1 v 1 match on Central Point, he played as the Romulans and I the assimilation avatar. Around 10-15 minutes into the game he sent a small fleet of Tavaras at me, I had 3 assimilators, 2 scout cubes, and an incomplete sphere. With just that I assimilated one of his tavaras and destroyed the other. Now taking into the consideration the scout cubes are the 2nd weakest Borg ship, and the Assimilators are the 3rd weakest Borg ship, doesn't it seem odd that they could easily fend off several of the Romulans most powerful battleships? And not only that, but capture one?

Again, all three of us experimented and played a 2 v 1 on Central Point. They played as the Federation and Dominion, and I the assimilation avatar as well. Not even 10 minutes into the match i am rushed by Decents, and I only have 2 Assimilators and 1 scout cube up. Both Assimilators, the 3rd weakest ship in the Borg fleet, held off and destroyed the Descents. If that is not OP I don't know what is. Even when I was rushed by Miranda's and a pair of Dom Dreadnaughts, my fleet of Assimilators and Pyramids held them off for about five minutes, almost long enough for the cube to come in with Nanites. And I'm not even going to talk about when a pair of cubes with Nanites gets up and running. Borg are not underpowered, they are not slow at harvesting resources. If anything they need to be weakened and nerfed, not enhanced. cbosdell can confirm this all (even though I eventually lost that 2 v 1 match naturally  ). I'm going to experiment more with Archeon and anyone else to prove the Borg are capable and balanced enough early game and unstoppable once they have nanite cubes up and running.

posted on January 22nd, 2009, 4:06 am

Sounds like the first used an "inefectual" strategy .... I would have used a pile of Leahvals and griffins to cream those... Leahvals' secondary weapon is really nasty to weak borg ships... and although you would lose a bunch if you just sent them alone, the griffins make the borg ships eyeless (their secondary as far as I remember). Tavaras are hardly the thing to send in without support though (against the borg, a single juicy target is NOT good... because of assimilators  ).

Same with rushing with Decents. No other ships? I mean, Decents are good support... but they aren't frontline god-units.

posted on January 22nd, 2009, 4:07 am

That's pretty much how things went down although I'd like to point out you destroyed neither of my descents -- only crippled the engines on one so I destroyed it myself with the other one. 

posted on January 22nd, 2009, 4:11 am

That's pretty much how things went down although I'd like to point out you destroyed neither of my descents -- only crippled the engines on one so I destroyed it myself with the other one. 

Hehe I could have chased after them if I wanted but I was feeling nice. 

posted on January 22nd, 2009, 4:17 am

Sounds like the first used an "inefectual" strategy .... I would have used a pile of Leahvals and griffins to cream those... Leahvals' secondary weapon is really nasty to weak borg ships... and although you would lose a bunch if you just sent them alone, the griffins make the borg ships eyeless (their secondary as far as I remember). Tavaras are hardly the thing to send in without support though (against the borg, a single juicy target is NOT good... because of assimilators  ).

Same with rushing with Decents. No other ships? I mean, Decents are good support... but they aren't frontline god-units.

Aha prehaps so but I tend to favor just building a lot of the bigger ships.  For what it's worth all my tavaras were fully upgraded besides cloak.    I was playing the avatar that allows Shrikes too so Griffins were out of the question.

posted on January 22nd, 2009, 4:23 am

Hmmm, still Tavaras don't have that enormous of a crew, so they can be assimilated without actually having to destroy them: they really just can't destroy borg assimilators fast enough to resist assimilation 

That's why I still favor using many ships (I hate shrikes though: griffins all the way )

posted on January 22nd, 2009, 5:00 am

against borg you need ships that deliver fast dmg against big targets and ships that make sure the target cant fire back :-)

posted on January 23rd, 2009, 4:13 pm

Forgive me for not knowing the FO techtrees by heart, but I'd say ship system disabling special weapons is the way to go against Borg. Have any of you tried this? Because maybe we are looking at this the wrong way. The Borg are very powerful, but they generally have a much smaller amount of ships, so disabling them (all) should theoretically be easier.

posted on January 23rd, 2009, 4:21 pm

Forgive me for not knowing the FO techtrees by heart, but I'd say ship system disabling special weapons is the way to go against Borg. Have any of you tried this? Because maybe we are looking at this the wrong way. The Borg are very powerful, but they generally have a much smaller amount of ships, so disabling them (all) should theoretically be easier.

we find it difficlut playing as borg. At times.
They need to be bumped up if anything. We get eaten alive when rushed.

And i know ppl have discussed bad strategy A against good strategy B and the come out claiming different results.
But if both players use an equally good technique, we see the borg as a little overwhelmed early on.

I am not for bumping up the assimilator. but certainly the scout cube needs to be more cubish instead of a shield scratcher.
And certainly the sphere and cube need to be bumped up. If not their offense, but CERTAINLY their defense.

And given that we have pretty much a consensus even amongst those who want the borg "less powerful", that early on they can be rushed, we need to consider at least bumping up their defense turrets to compensate for a complete absence of ships  in the beginning.

posted on January 23rd, 2009, 5:28 pm

I don't think the borg need buffing, they are strong as they are now. The AI however needs tunning because it builds fully upgraded ships and cheats like hell.

posted on January 23rd, 2009, 7:37 pm

I don't think the borg need buffing, they are strong as they are now. The AI however needs tunning because it builds fully upgraded ships and cheats like hell.

interesting. Quick question. Have you played as borg with the assimilator or the Optimize avatar?

posted on January 23rd, 2009, 8:18 pm

I played with the assimilator but I decreased the AI's cheating power by increasing the build time of his ships to 1.5.