Are the Feds really so overpowered?

posted on September 10th, 2010, 8:50 pm

Ok, so there has been bitching, there have been recriminations, there has been name calling, and if we met in person i suspect some hair pulling would have happened.  But, are the feds soooo overpowered?

My initial view was that the Feds were just easy to learn, where other races could be even more powerful, you just need to know how to play them to pull it off.

I'm still of this opinion to a certain extent, and i'm trying to become a good Klingon player (by the way, accusations that Klingons, especially Kvort spam is overpowered appeared as well tonight), but I do find I win more as the feds... is this because i know them better or is it because of turrets and warp-in?

I would hate to see feds loose warp-in, its a great unique feature, so i guess if they are OP then something needs to be done to make warp in either weaker or less certain... but saying that, tonight my first warp-in on the second game was sensor Neb and 2 steamrunners... fine for taking out mining, but not against a fleet of A-20s and bombers.

Anyway, my vote goes for option 2, as I think going as the Feds is not insta win, and the other races have their OP moments as well.

posted on September 10th, 2010, 8:57 pm

Really the problem is turrets and warpin.
Warpin is just a pain, and turrets easily stop harassing.

Way to fix this:

1. Lower ALL values of the turrets.

2. For the warpin... Make it only buildable after the Large Yard has been built (including everything it needs now). Put a usage supply cost on it (eg 15 supplies). And put a warning on it (thanks to Mal for the idea), its like the Hyper-Arty warning, so it will show a big warning sign where the warpin is coming, also it shows you on the minimap and says something like "Warpin signatures detected".

This should fix the Feds nicely. At least do what I suggested to the warpin, but a turret nerf would be nice aswell. 

Thanks.
Opinions?

posted on September 10th, 2010, 9:01 pm

I think we can break this down in several steps:

1. The Feds are easy to learn and well rounded in terms of defense and offense for pure stats, and for units/structures.

2. The Feds are the most popular faction online.

3. Free Warp-In.

4. Feds were overpowered in previous versions (especially visible in 3.0.0-3.0.7).

Now that we've done that, here's my personal opinion . Since Feds require no huge special skill (like learning how to use cloak properly *cough*), it means they are the easiest faction to get used to, and thus start winning with. Hence the start of the stigma. I find Klingons or Dominion usually easier to win with (especially Klingons), but they have a steeper learning curve than Federation, which will offset that for most players.

The "real issue" has been Warp-In (which isn't so bad until after at least the second Warp-In, since despite what some people will tell you, it is NOT FREE SHIPS until after you start accumulating them), but after 3.1.4 that shouldn't be a problem .

In the end, if you listen to the conversations on Tunngle long enough, you'll come out believing that every faction, every unit, and every single darn thing is OP ... at least as espoused by a handful of people  ^-^ . This especially holds true for historically complained about things.

posted on September 10th, 2010, 9:05 pm

Hear hear, Dom! 

 
  Very nicely put .

 
  If I may be a broken record:  The Federation right now truly do have the lowest learning curve and don't require the most macromanagement OR micromanagement to win with.  Free ships continually allow newer players to recover from mistakes and recover from opponent harassment MUCH more easily.

 
  On the other hand, the Feds do NEED some of what they currently have in order to be viable against races with incredible benefits like the cloaking races.  No cloak means they cannot cover all their areas at all times and are almost always likely to be watched.  Thus they need a leg up as the Dominion do in other areas .


    Anyway, as Dominus pointed out, 3.1.4 should see Feds with a much better setup for being as balanced as possible

[Anonymous]

posted on September 10th, 2010, 9:06 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on September 10th, 2010, 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

the feds in my opinion are slightly op.

their stuff isnt expensive, so attacking the resources has less effect on them. but this game is decided by resources, and strikes on other factions resources has more effect. feds can also buy supply for fair prices.

to compound this, feds get free ships from sfc. nearly all their ships (warpin or buildable) are good ships, with strong defence values, meaning if u are giving them loving micro, they can escape alive. and they dont give the sort of dps klinks do, but they arent offensively weak either. plus feds dont lose that many ships, so they build up. losing ships as feds matters a lot less than as other races.

even further, they can throw up a fair priced phaser turret early on and harassing stops. it just stops, u cant risk losing a brel that early, a mayson phaser platform will kill a brel in 2 volleys. and as the game progresses if u want to be booooring u can put up loads more fed turrets. they have nice ranges, are hard to kill, and kick serious bottom. they arent fleet killers on their own usually, but they certainly delay the enemy for aaaaaages. enough time to get more free warpins sometimes the threat of running into a wall of fed turrets is enough to deter an attack.

feds are dangerous if u leave them alone for any serious time as they build up a fleet fast, and rebuild destroyed forces fast too.

they have counters for loads of situations, and they have lots of awesome special weapons.

feds are definitely beatable, they arent instant win, but they certainly give an advantage to their player. i never choose feds, only play them when the random gods decide i should.

they are strong in early game, strong in middle and strong in late

keep in mind that nearly all trek games have op feds. and that feds are much less op than they have ever been in the past, and that they get more and more balanced every patch. so soon the feds will probably be balanced.

EDIT: i got ninjad a lot

[loki_999]

posted on September 10th, 2010, 9:09 pm

Last edited by loki_999 on September 10th, 2010, 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yeah, i know the mantra Dom, every side is overpowered.  Actually, to my mind, simply imposing a supply cost on Warp-ins would work well.  Still, from what you posted it sounds like you have some insider information, so i guess we are all waiting with bated breath for 3.1.4 to come out then.  I just hope they don't screw the feds to the point where people are complaining "the feds are underpowered".

One problem with online games is, quite often, people after loosing will claim they lost because the other side is overpowered.  And they can be any race... you are right, i've heard complaints that each and every race is overpowered.

Edit now i've seen M's response...

Just to say, i really think FO needs an easy side to play, and that side should be the Feds.  New players can come in, say, "Hey, i want to be Picard" and play as the feds, and don't entirely get their arse kicked... but they don't necessarily win massively either.  The other (harder) races should then get their chance to crap all over the feds... if played well.

Consider other games you have played, some racing games come to mind.  Sure, you can win all races by selecting automatic gearbox, but you get the high scores by selecting manual*

* - for our american friends, a manual gearbox is where you manually select the gear and use a thing called the clutch to facilitate this.  It gives you a lot more control over your car and in a Russian winter it is vital to have one.

posted on September 10th, 2010, 9:13 pm

I just hope they don't screw the feds to the point where people are complaining "the feds are underpowered".

  That still happens now to my knowledge

  And it will ALWAYS continue to happen 

posted on September 11th, 2010, 5:15 am

So true boggz that usually happens the first time that people people play online and discover that they cant turtle their way to soverigns if they want to win. Hey at least we dont have any of these posts anymore (Insert x-ship from the shows) IS WAY UNDERPOWERED it needs saucer seperation, more torpedos, multi-spectral phasers, cloaking, and a domesday device.

posted on September 11th, 2010, 5:19 am

Yeah, now we just have "Breen cruiser, the ship that is in the running for hard countering the largest number of vessels, is underpowered".

Oh well, it could be worse.

posted on September 11th, 2010, 6:25 am

Imo most OP claims come if certain combinations of factions encounter...take Dominion vs Klingons, or Dominion vs Rom or Rom vs Klingons for example. All these games are indeed winnable but not in a fair way if similar skilled players fight. Mostly this is due to one ship that cant be countered by the majority of the other factions available ships...or because most of a players ships can be countered by a single ship of the other faction. My suggestion is to make all counters available in each races small yard and give additional options in the large yard. Or at least each race gets a SR, LR, MR counter in the small yard...and one that can stand a chance (not like e.g. Brel vs Rhienn).

posted on September 11th, 2010, 7:03 am

Imo most OP claims come if certain combinations of factions encounter...take Dominion vs Klingons, or Dominion vs Rom or Rom vs Klingons for example. All these games are indeed winnable but not in a fair way if similar skilled players fight. Mostly this is due to one ship that cant be countered by the majority of the other factions available ships...or because most of a players ships can be countered by a single ship of the other faction. My suggestion is to make all counters available in each races small yard and give additional options in the large yard. Or at least each race gets a SR, LR, MR counter in the small yard...and one that can stand a chance (not like e.g. Brel vs Rhienn).

I think this is the best solution indeed.

posted on September 11th, 2010, 7:46 am

I think that Feds are perceived as OP since they are able to maintain there ships more easily because of the high defense values. It is not to say that they are generally stronger, but I guess that it is easier to hold up a sturdy fed fleet, especially with veterans later.

posted on September 11th, 2010, 7:46 am

Excelsior - Counter with: Monsoons, B'rels, Rhienn Torpedo Refits, S-2 Escort Cruisers, and Dodecahedrons

Nebula - Counter with: Intrepids, K’vorts, Rhienn Torpedo Refits, A-20 Attack Destroyers

Galaxy - Counter with: Monsoons, B’rels, Leahvals, A-20 Attack Destroyers, Scout Cubes

Ambassador - Counter with: Defiant, Vor'chas, Shrikes

Steamrunner - Pretty much anything

Warp-in is just fine and not OP, every ship has a counter. People just fail to build the appropriate ships to counter potential warp-ins. The only warp-in ship that could be even remotely considered OP is the Ambassador since only the Vor'cha is effective at countering it (and Shrikes if you are playing as Mijural). Then again the Ambassador's firepower is not too high so it's not that bad if you gang up on it.

posted on September 11th, 2010, 8:02 am

So true boggz that usually happens the first time that people people play online and discover that they cant turtle their way to soverigns if they want to win. Hey at least we dont have any of these posts anymore (Insert x-ship from the shows) IS WAY UNDERPOWERED it needs saucer seperation, more torpedos, multi-spectral phasers, cloaking, and a domesday device.

dont forget riker!

posted on September 11th, 2010, 8:21 am

I didnt hes one of the extra torpedos.......