First Impressions, and some questions
posted on April 27th, 2009, 9:37 pm
Heya all and if you happen to have looked in the small talk forum you'll know i'm new here and just started playing the game. I downloaded it the other day and have already played 4-5 games. Only 1 of them as a race other than the federations (The Borg). I have no one to play against at the moment because my university blocks the port needed to play online. (Which is just as well considering exams are in 3 weeks)
I started playing as the Federation against the Dominion, the Avatar selection method is simple enough and it certainly allows you to take the Federation in a direction of your own choosing. I also found the build speed more to my liking and the overall control of supplies reminded me of Generals and Zero Hour more than Armada II. This is no bad thing as supply control has been a major feature of my battles against the computer so far.
I found that units tend to react how i ask them to, although the lack of an ability to having my sabres select a formation that keeps them moving in the event of an attack is a downer... They seem to last longer while moving but that could be my imagination.
I also found that arranging your units isn't possible, and while not a problem in itself the computer seems to arrange your units randomly and you have no option to just losely cluster units and move them that way.
This is a shame because more often than not i specific ships in specific places (For instance the Federation Warp in Command Cruiser is a brilliant place in the prow of a wedge formation due to its high defence and its ability when the wedge hits the enemy lines!)
Overall use of special abilities by the AI when you set Automity to medium is reasonable however i do find at times they make the occasional silly mistake. Firing Tri-Cobalt torpedoes at a B'Rel or Dominion Bug is just not going to work!!
Overall then a very satisfying game, the community support seems to be large and in place, the modders seem to care about the game (its more like a seperate game than mod to be honest) and a lot of thought seems to have gone into balance. Some observations however; (Please note i downloaded and read the online help guide as well as the main readme and all other documentation on tactics etc i could get my hands on)
1) On the map selection screen it goes on about credits? What are these for as i can't seem to find a use!!
2) Better unit mapping while in generic formations would be useful
3) Specific attack formations (Circle while engaging, Jousting type attack run etc) would be good
4) The ability to spread out units or just have a loose collection would be useful for those who like specific micro managment
5) I like the current supply system and resource system. Simple but very effective. The ship build times are also good!
6) The federation seems to have a lot of non-cannon ships in places were Cannon ships could be used well. Yet those Cannon ships are only allowed in Warp-in? Why can't we build a Galaxy class Battleship? Or a Nebula Or an Excelsior. Given that one of the support ships could be replaced by the nebula model i don't quite understand this?? Is this a simple "because we think it looks cool" or "setting" decision. I would just like to understand the reasoning behind this??
Those as you can see are relatively small suggestions and not anything major. A testiment so far to how the game looks. As regards Balance i will wait untill i have played human opponents before i make comments on that.
Good job guys
I started playing as the Federation against the Dominion, the Avatar selection method is simple enough and it certainly allows you to take the Federation in a direction of your own choosing. I also found the build speed more to my liking and the overall control of supplies reminded me of Generals and Zero Hour more than Armada II. This is no bad thing as supply control has been a major feature of my battles against the computer so far.
I found that units tend to react how i ask them to, although the lack of an ability to having my sabres select a formation that keeps them moving in the event of an attack is a downer... They seem to last longer while moving but that could be my imagination.
I also found that arranging your units isn't possible, and while not a problem in itself the computer seems to arrange your units randomly and you have no option to just losely cluster units and move them that way.
This is a shame because more often than not i specific ships in specific places (For instance the Federation Warp in Command Cruiser is a brilliant place in the prow of a wedge formation due to its high defence and its ability when the wedge hits the enemy lines!)
Overall use of special abilities by the AI when you set Automity to medium is reasonable however i do find at times they make the occasional silly mistake. Firing Tri-Cobalt torpedoes at a B'Rel or Dominion Bug is just not going to work!!
Overall then a very satisfying game, the community support seems to be large and in place, the modders seem to care about the game (its more like a seperate game than mod to be honest) and a lot of thought seems to have gone into balance. Some observations however; (Please note i downloaded and read the online help guide as well as the main readme and all other documentation on tactics etc i could get my hands on)
1) On the map selection screen it goes on about credits? What are these for as i can't seem to find a use!!
2) Better unit mapping while in generic formations would be useful
3) Specific attack formations (Circle while engaging, Jousting type attack run etc) would be good
4) The ability to spread out units or just have a loose collection would be useful for those who like specific micro managment
5) I like the current supply system and resource system. Simple but very effective. The ship build times are also good!
6) The federation seems to have a lot of non-cannon ships in places were Cannon ships could be used well. Yet those Cannon ships are only allowed in Warp-in? Why can't we build a Galaxy class Battleship? Or a Nebula Or an Excelsior. Given that one of the support ships could be replaced by the nebula model i don't quite understand this?? Is this a simple "because we think it looks cool" or "setting" decision. I would just like to understand the reasoning behind this??
Those as you can see are relatively small suggestions and not anything major. A testiment so far to how the game looks. As regards Balance i will wait untill i have played human opponents before i make comments on that.
Good job guys
posted on April 27th, 2009, 10:38 pm
1. credits were the old style used to limit constructon of special items, recently eliminated and replaced by the limit system, giving limits to individual unit types
2, 3, & 4 (answer is all somewhat inter-related).
also do a search for: Ship Formations, Attack Patterns, Directors cut... they each should generate a lot of answers for you.
6. here are some of the points made my the modders you are looking for quoted from older subjects:
and to answer your Cardassian question in the other post:
2, 3, & 4 (answer is all somewhat inter-related).
Optec wrote:...We will try to get more advanced formations for later versions (like smaller and faster vessels flanking the battleships). But that's a lot of work and i hope you understand we cannot do everything at once
Additional commands like scripted actions (patrol, then attack, then repair..) are not possible in Armada. At least we think so at the moment...
Optec
DOCa Cola wrote:as we use a 2d movement model formations have become less important during game and may even lead to problems than being useful so we left formations as feature out until we have more time going through the formations feature deeper.
DOCa Cola
also do a search for: Ship Formations, Attack Patterns, Directors cut... they each should generate a lot of answers for you.
6. here are some of the points made my the modders you are looking for quoted from older subjects:
Optec wrote:the starships warped in by starfleet command are units which are either too rare or are no longer produced. cause Sovereign Class starships are still in production they are constructed from a normal yard
Optec wrote:The Galaxy and Nebula Class vessels are quite old and their production have been stoped after the dominion war. The Steamrunner and Descent Class vessels only exist in low numbers. Therefore this 4 vessels are to warpin from existing fleets and not to be build by your regular yards.
The Descent Class is the most powerful Federation vessel availible in Fleet Operations. There won't be a Galaxy X-refit in the near future. Maybe as an Non Player unit.
and to answer your Cardassian question in the other post:
Optec wrote:The cardassians are no longer allied with the Dominion and dont play a major role in the Fleet Operations storyline, however they will be introduced as a non-playable-Ai faction
posted on April 27th, 2009, 11:15 pm
Ah thank you very much, thats a wealth of information and i will definately use the search to get up to date. You'll forgive me if i don't read EVERYTHING before posting though as that would take quite a while from the amount of data the team seems to have compiled
Shame about the Galaxy-X refit as it could be the opposite of what the sovereign seems to be a Battleship focusing on attack, and one that is generic to the basic avatars. Or perhaps a Warp in offensive version of the Descent with a special that either focuses its large phaser cannon into a beam of uber doom or a more command based offensive ability?
As for formations i understand that they are difficult and i wasn't expected the X formations or Assault Walls from armada because obviously the game has been changed to 2D (and a good move it was). However i still eagerly await some more advanced formation choices to allow a more general command of the field of battle.
That or just allow formations to be disabled so you can order ships how you want and then use a Ctrl-f function like in Generals or Zero hour to keep the formation. This requires more micromanagement but would allow the specific placement of ships??
Shame about the Galaxy-X refit as it could be the opposite of what the sovereign seems to be a Battleship focusing on attack, and one that is generic to the basic avatars. Or perhaps a Warp in offensive version of the Descent with a special that either focuses its large phaser cannon into a beam of uber doom or a more command based offensive ability?
As for formations i understand that they are difficult and i wasn't expected the X formations or Assault Walls from armada because obviously the game has been changed to 2D (and a good move it was). However i still eagerly await some more advanced formation choices to allow a more general command of the field of battle.
That or just allow formations to be disabled so you can order ships how you want and then use a Ctrl-f function like in Generals or Zero hour to keep the formation. This requires more micromanagement but would allow the specific placement of ships??
posted on April 27th, 2009, 11:20 pm
posted on April 27th, 2009, 11:28 pm
posted on April 28th, 2009, 12:48 am
First of all, welcome to the FO forums! it's always great to see new people around here (specially considering im one of them ).I think i can help you with the excelsior: They were produced so much during the Lost era and on into early TNG (i think) that A: there are so many of them around and B: they have a reasonable durability in order to survive the Dominon War in any great number. Thus the FODB - er, ASDB decided to comission a cheaper and more up-to-date platform to serve as a verstaile heavy cruiser class. I do rather like the luna and titan class, it's just that fleet ops is setting up a custom storyline and the FO team preffered to design custom ships. After all, what's a mod without some great custom designs that originated from it? also, as i recall, a galaxy class could easily be taken down by a mere couple of attack bugs (think ramming, and the polaron beams were pretty strong too). Now, before you protest that the dominion is underpowered at least compared to the shows, the idea is (as far that the federation and klingons, etc. kept improving while the domion saw no need to improve (beyond making some new ship designs).
).I think i can help you with the excelsior: They were produced so much during the Lost era and on into early TNG (i think) that A: there are so many of them around and B: they have a reasonable durability in order to survive the Dominon War in any great number. Thus the FODB - er, ASDB decided to comission a cheaper and more up-to-date platform to serve as a verstaile heavy cruiser class. I do rather like the luna and titan class, it's just that fleet ops is setting up a custom storyline and the FO team preffered to design custom ships. After all, what's a mod without some great custom designs that originated from it? also, as i recall, a galaxy class could easily be taken down by a mere couple of attack bugs (think ramming, and the polaron beams were pretty strong too). Now, before you protest that the dominion is underpowered at least compared to the shows, the idea is (as far that the federation and klingons, etc. kept improving while the domion saw no need to improve (beyond making some new ship designs).posted on April 28th, 2009, 12:56 pm
The Dominion have always had the unfortunate example of being exceptionally powerful at the start of the show (ala bug killing Galaxy) and then being destroyed in single hits at the end of DS9. Just the way it goes i guess but i might have done it differently.
As to the galaxy being destroyed in a single hit. That happened once to the Oddssey. At the time i might add that her shields were down and had been transferred to weapons because she couldn't stop the dominion polaron beams. Later on in the show the Galaxy class proved to be one of the most effective ship classes, even more so than the Excelsior (and i love the Excelsior class!!)
Consider Sacrifice of the Angels and the others, you often see the Galaxy class engaging at close range and mauling every ship they do. Given that at that time, and certainly in FO timeline, the federation has effective shields ramming attacks aren't so much of a problem (Shields stop vessels as shown several times in TNG and very well in Nemesis!)
Given her size, Durability and good shields the Galaxy fits the multipurpose heavy cruiser very well. Especially as she has multiple phaser arrays that are wide coverage compared to the Excelsiors phaser banks.
However as i said its a lovely mod and i understand if the team want some of their own ships and designs present as it is set after DS9. I just think its a shame that some of the more recent cannon ship designs aren't in... Minor critisim as far as the game goes though 
As to the galaxy being destroyed in a single hit. That happened once to the Oddssey. At the time i might add that her shields were down and had been transferred to weapons because she couldn't stop the dominion polaron beams. Later on in the show the Galaxy class proved to be one of the most effective ship classes, even more so than the Excelsior (and i love the Excelsior class!!)
Consider Sacrifice of the Angels and the others, you often see the Galaxy class engaging at close range and mauling every ship they do. Given that at that time, and certainly in FO timeline, the federation has effective shields ramming attacks aren't so much of a problem (Shields stop vessels as shown several times in TNG and very well in Nemesis!)
Given her size, Durability and good shields the Galaxy fits the multipurpose heavy cruiser very well. Especially as she has multiple phaser arrays that are wide coverage compared to the Excelsiors phaser banks.
However as i said its a lovely mod and i understand if the team want some of their own ships and designs present as it is set after DS9. I just think its a shame that some of the more recent cannon ship designs aren't in
... Minor critisim as far as the game goes though posted on April 29th, 2009, 6:43 am
Very good points. Unfortunately i havent seen DS9 in a while and my memory is fuzzy. Thankfully, i'l be seeing it again very soon
posted on April 29th, 2009, 7:05 am
posted on April 29th, 2009, 7:14 am
posted on April 29th, 2009, 12:22 pm
You say that RCIX but then why continue the excelsior over the Galaxy in that case??? Event he Mark II or a Lakota class excelsior is not going to be able to match a Galaxy and certainly not a Venture class Galaxy starship.
Also you say smaller, more effective warships? The Galaxy is stated in many places as having the most effective kill ratio of the Dominion war though i can't find a source right now i will get one to you later.
As much as i love the excelsior if its going to be a Galaxy or an Excelsior markII then i would say the Galaxy has to be in...
Of course this is just opinion and nit picking really. The game is lovely however if you don't ask... you won't get
Also you say smaller, more effective warships? The Galaxy is stated in many places as having the most effective kill ratio of the Dominion war though i can't find a source right now i will get one to you later.
As much as i love the excelsior if its going to be a Galaxy or an Excelsior markII then i would say the Galaxy has to be in...
Of course this is just opinion and nit picking really. The game is lovely however if you don't ask... you won't get
posted on April 29th, 2009, 1:26 pm
DOES NO ONE MOD FOR THEMSELVES ANYMORE?!!! I've said this multiple times to multiple people: MAKE IT YOURSELF!!! You want a buildable Galaxy? Add it to the build queue of a station!!! You want SS? Make a Replaceweapon for it!!! You have these amazing tools to make ultimate mods, and you DON'T USE THEM!!!! Is it because you cant, or you won't?!!!!Sorry, a lot of pent up rage towards this basic subject had to be released, no hard feelings
.But, anyway, if you can't, then here's a link to the Modding Features Guide: //www.fleetops.net/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,3/topic,3545.0/
Hope this helps on your way to modding
.
posted on April 29th, 2009, 1:32 pm
In order to make the changes compatible to mutliplayer - the focus of Fleet Operations - those changes need to be put in a FO release, thats why many people share their thoughts here on the forums, and there is nothing wrong with it
I will take a look at your requests and ideas. Maybe one thing or another will take it in a future patch
I will take a look at your requests and ideas. Maybe one thing or another will take it in a future patch
posted on April 29th, 2009, 1:43 pm
and just to let you know Mega it is not very easy to mod FO odfs especially for someone who just started playing the game. 
posted on April 29th, 2009, 2:04 pm
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