First Impressions, and some questions

[Lt.Cdr.White]

posted on April 30th, 2009, 9:46 pm

Last edited by Lt.Cdr.White on April 30th, 2009, 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Seeing the screenshots, at least 3 canon ships are planned or in development. I saw the Prometheus and the Ambassador.

Also you forgot the Norway and Steamrunner classes. Both were in First Contact (not sure if they were in DS9, I heard some of the computer models got lost and could not be reused in DS9).

Ah, and the Nova class is coming, too. (Voy: USS Equinox)

But I agree, the more canon ships are in, the better.
However, I also like to have some new stuff as long as it fits into the general picture.

And as I said, warping in the old style vessels makes sense, as we wouldn't be building them anymore. Modular technology, current design elements shared between current ship classes. Noone would build a Golf I anymore, but current cars often share technology by large amounts.

Edit: And the Venture class, Datas scout ship in Insurrection, is in.

posted on April 30th, 2009, 9:48 pm

The Excalibur is the ugliest ship and I refuse to play any mod/game with it involved. Well, just saying since we are on opinions here. And Fleet Operations is it's own timeline, therefore all the decisions made by the mod staff don't have to abide by canon or...fanon for that matter. And yes we can custom fit as many galaxy class ships for combat as you'd like, but I'd more than likely still not see them being built during this timeline, the Excelsior II is a cheaper ship to manufacture, has less crew and for the price you pay in resources gets a lot more done with it's combat power, however the Galaxy class is still a better 'explorer'. With regard to the fabled...'canon' of the Titan class "Because the Luna design has not been featured on-screen, it is not canon, however, the Titan's mention in Star Trek Nemesis means that the existence of the ship is. Decipher, Inc. in its Star Trek Customizable Card Game identified the Titan as a Prometheus-class starship." Sorry but it is just as canon...as any of the ships designed by the Flops team. And even at that, there is a plan for the Prometheus class, just...kindly read through the throng of posts regarding it and the Galaxy class. I'm just saying, no offense to you but every few months a new user registers...and poses this exact same argument. P.S. I logged in just to reply to this thread.

posted on April 30th, 2009, 9:57 pm

I must say i dont like the Excalibur much, too, so she will never get in Fleet Operations as a playable vessel, perhaps as a fun-vessel one day, but there is not even a todo for her. I think somehow the design looks not that Federation-like and we already have a heavy command unit - the Descent.

Yep, the Nova is planed for a future feature

posted on April 30th, 2009, 10:30 pm

The Excalibur is the ugliest ship

I agree but i will still play the mod if FO decides to include it, but dont expect me to build it. But i dont have to worry because Optec doesn't like it either. Also the Luna class is not a battleship it is at the most just a cruiser. Is just the Nova planned or is the Rhode Island planned too.

posted on April 30th, 2009, 11:25 pm

Fair points that you all make....

I will refute you still one point.

The excelsior class does not give more bang for its buck than the Galaxy... Or it shouldn't. While to a certain point i can understand it being cheaper etc there comes a point where it will be obsolete. This will occur well before the Galaxy because its space frame IS MUCH OLDER.

I don't care what anyone says, the spitfire might be cheap but its no use anymore. The same stands.

As the Excelsior mark II is a seemingly new build and the warp in Excelsior isn't as powerful as a Galaxy this isn't a big issue, however i thought i'd mention it.


I was never saying that Fleet ops had to follow cannon etc, nor looking for an argument in whats cannon and isnt.

I was pointing out that to some extent there must be a level of common sense in designing the history and storyline of this game. And common sense says that if the Excelsior was struggling against the dominion then you can bet that 30 years down the line it is now in serious problems. The galaxy having been a very new ship at that time frame would not have the same problems.

However if the Excelsior Mark II is a new ship then its not so much an issue. Though changing its name might avoid confusion and work better with starfleet ship naming conventions?


The Excalibur isn't anywhere near as ugly as the Akira, the Steamrunner, the Defiant or numerous other "blocky" "square" ship models.

posted on May 1st, 2009, 12:15 am

Again I agree, I dislike the Excelcior quiet a bit

posted on May 1st, 2009, 3:36 am

now now your picking on a lot of ships i like here

posted on May 1st, 2009, 6:10 am

As several people pointed out, the excelsior II is a whole new design. It appears to be of construction similar to the sovereign, but A: reminiscent of the excelsior, and B: cheaper and faster to build. This vessel offers an eventual replacement for the akira and for now serves between the defiant and akira classes. The galaxy class, on the other hand, is bigger and more expensive than the sovereign while at the same time being weaker. Thus it's primary reason for being discontinued because better vessels can be had cheaper. To give an example, would you pay 100,000 dollars for a 60's chevy classic car when you can buy an accord for 40,000 which is better in most (if not all) respects.

posted on May 1st, 2009, 8:52 am

I agree, however the comparison is a little off since the Galaxy ships are still amongst the newest and the more advanced ships...
Miranda and Excelsior ships are more classic
Not to mention B'rels...

posted on May 1st, 2009, 11:47 am

The Sovereign is a warship, it's Science and Multi-Purpose equipment is no where near as capable as the Galaxies. At least that is what i'm led to belive and it makes sense.

Ablative Armour, Superior shielding, Larger Phasers and More Torpedo turrets. Add that to a small more compact hull frame and suddenly your looking at a ship with less space for large astrometrics, zenobioloy, medical bays and the like.

Course i doubt the designers in Star Trek thought of that. They love making things smaller and more capable. While you can do that to an extent they become specalised like a laptop...


Oh btw, some people seem to think i dislike the Excelsior class. I don't its one of my favourite ships... behing the Galaxy class.

Anything that has that magestic two long trailing warp nacel's with a secondary hull and saucer section is going to do well in my books. I just hate things that are squashed and compact and very square....

I mean in battle they would work better afterall if your a sensible captain there are so many obvious structurally weak points to target in startrek its unreal.

posted on May 1st, 2009, 2:10 pm

As several people pointed out, the excelsior II is a whole new design. It appears to be of construction similar to the sovereign, but A: reminiscent of the excelsior, and B: cheaper and faster to build. This vessel offers an eventual replacement for the akira and for now serves between the defiant and akira classes. The galaxy class, on the other hand, is bigger and more expensive than the sovereign while at the same time being weaker. Thus it's primary reason for being discontinued because better vessels can be had cheaper. To give an example, would you pay 100,000 dollars for a 60's chevy classic car when you can buy an accord for 40,000 which is better in most (if not all) respects.

You know i agreed with you up till the very end, im not sure why you had to ruin your post with the last analogy.

posted on May 1st, 2009, 3:19 pm

To me, the new Excelsior II costs less in material, crew and would cost less to operate due to the much smaller size, need for less rations/quarters and the fact that it is a newer and probably more efficient design. On the weapons end it is equal to the standard Galaxy class or at least very close. So yes it is great to have a Galaxy class on scene (!) but for actually constructing a whole new ship in a combat zone, the Excelsior II makes much more sense.

posted on May 1st, 2009, 8:08 pm

Sorry about the analogy, its the only one i could think of. Now, while it is true that the galaxy class has more room for laboratories and such, it costs even more than a sovereign to build in time and manpower while smaller ships can be built that have similar defensive capabilities, a reasonable complement of research equipment, and can be built much cheaper. So, that makes the galaxy a useful ship while it is in existence but overall it doesn't need to be built further.

posted on May 1st, 2009, 9:33 pm

Sorry about the analogy, its the only one i could think of. Now, while it is true that the galaxy class has more room for laboratories and such, it costs even more than a sovereign to build in time and manpower while smaller ships can be built that have similar defensive capabilities, a reasonable complement of research equipment, and can be built much cheaper. So, that makes the galaxy a useful ship while it is in existence but overall it doesn't need to be built further.

I was under the impression the Sovereign cost more to build? It features far more cutting edge combat technologies and propulsion technologies. Its also the longest ship in the fleet so its not exactly small. Finally things like ablative armour aren't going to be easy to make i would imagine??

Your stating smaller ships can have similar defensive capabilities, good research and much cheaper... Star trek says the opposite.
The Sabre, the Defiant outclass the Galaxy in offense perhaps but have rubbish medical and science facilities. The Intrepid has worse tactical and combat capabilities but is possibly the equal in scientific and has a longer range (Variable warp geometry).
The Nova couldn't fight its way out of a wet paper bag but has excellent science facilities.

None of these ships have near the emergency medical capability of the Galaxy nor the natural disaster relief due to inferior shuttlebay capacity. And space space to carry supplys, injured people etcetc.

Given the Sovereign is a warship/ heavy diplomatic vessel. It seems that the Galaxy would still be the fleets all round multi purpose deep explorer. It has the science to conduct exploration. It has size and so therefore a long mission range and supply length. It has good medical facilities to cater for meeting unknown exploration and any inevitable medical problems. It has ambassadorial facilities for first contact during exploration.
Finally it has the tactical and combat capabilities to defend itself and the shuttlebay facility to easily be upgraded with multiple delta flyers and fighters and thus run multiple exploration and survey missions.

In all the Galaxy at the end of the Dominion war would easily be the best Heavy explorer the Federation had. Its always stated at the end of the war the federation was quick to resume exploration and diplomatic missions. Yet in a more dangerous galaxy the galaxy (excuse pun) would be able to look after itself.

I'd invision the Defiant becoming a very powerful escort warship. Capable of independent operations from a starbase and reacting to threats easily due to its powerful tactical abilities. Afterall the starbase could handle diplomatic situation.

Sabres, Norways, Akira, Nova and Intrepid become the massed ships of the fleet. Used for patrol, analysis of recorded scientific areas of intrest (some of those no doubt surveyed and found by galaxy and then passed onto a specalised vessel), Intrepid being the smaller sister of the galaxy as a multi purpose explorer though perhaps closer to home.

Akira becomes the stable warship in the federation. It preformed well in the Dominion wars and is a robust cruiser capable of utilising large number of torpedoes (its actual stats has 15 launchers so its a bit dispointing it has only the 1 and no special torpedo weapons in the game... but thats because i go with th 15 launchers 4 phasers over the 10 phasers 4 launchers.... afterall the designers said 15 launchers)

As regards the big vessels we have covered the multipurpose well designed and capable Galaxy that can fill in the battlecruiser/command ship for most situations. Given its on exploration duty it will likely be were new conflicts and disputes of territory happen anyway.

The Sovereign can be saved for truly important diplomatic missions and situations were an exceptional warship is really needed such as major fleet engagements.

Remore in Fleet ops certainly fills the big support carrier type vessel alongside the Avalon and i like the look of both ships, certainly a more "support" than combat role.

All thats lacking is a Dreadnaught... ie what the Galaxy was in best of both worlds. Or the Sovereign in First contact. I would say Excalibur or Titan class but titan has no schematics so im just imagining riker going for a big "galaxy" type class of starship. The Excalibur doesn't seem to be liked by Fleet ops so the Phalanx fits the bill fine alongside the Descent.


Either way before bringing new ship classes into it the Galaxy is a far more capable multi-purpose vessel than the Excelsior could ever be and as i said i love the Excelsior.

If they build an entirely new class to supercede the Galaxy it may be more effective but it most certainly wouldn't be cheaper... Not with a full fram only 30-40 years old at the most and designed to last 100 years minimum in the specs

posted on May 1st, 2009, 10:32 pm

You're correct in that the sovereign is a cutting edge ship; however if you look at the excelsior II (what appears to be the replacement to the galaxy in some respects) it has near the same stats in offense and defense and is smaller and chaper than either the sovereign and galaxy. Thus it stands to reason that you would build this over a galaxy. After all, why would you build 1 galaxy when you can have 2 excelsior ii ships that can fill the same roles better (i figure that the galaxy would cost about 1000 dilithium, they have it sized wrong in FO)?