Noxter an 8472 clone?

posted on January 12th, 2009, 3:30 pm

I downloaded a previous version of FO and found the noxter to be very very similar in gameplay to the A2 version of 8472. Even the association between them and nebulas in playing style is again reminiscent of 8472 in A2.

Noxter textures also appeared to be a cross between 8472 and the Mantis race of Conquest:Frontier Wars by Ubisoft.

Were the Noxter intended to be clones or remnants of 8472 in the Alpha quadrant like the Dominion in the FO storyline are? Or is this just coincidence?

Do the Noxter appear to anyone else as weaker mutations of 8472?

[Anonymous]

posted on January 12th, 2009, 5:42 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on January 12th, 2009, 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

As far as I know, they are a completely made-up race specific to the FO universe. Basically, while making up their story, the FO-team invented them.
They are ment to be an organic race, so its obvious there are some similarities between them and 8472/Mantis/Zerg/Tyranids

And I dont think they are the "Alpha flavour" of the species 8472
I dont what you mean of the weaker mutation though? They arent even in yet and, if judging by BETA2, the Klingon construction ship is the strongest unit in the game

Wait for the team to include them in V3 and lets see what happens then and also criticize (if necessary) later

posted on January 12th, 2009, 10:00 pm

Yep the Noxter are a made-up race of the Fleet Operations universe. The Noxter will come back after a complete gameplay and optical face-lift in a large content patch for v3

posted on January 12th, 2009, 10:34 pm

I don't see them as a clone at all, at least from the way they behave. When it comes to gameplay in 2.0 they are very similar to 8472, though as Optec said they are getting a makeover as I presumed. From my perspective I picture the Noxter as more animal like, primitive, and acting based on instinct compared to 8472 who are super evolved, civilized, and sentient.

posted on January 12th, 2009, 11:35 pm

i really like the noxter and eagerly awaiting there return

posted on January 13th, 2009, 6:45 am

yep, the Noxter are no thelepatic superpower, they dont even understand humanoid technology. To call them animals would be a bit hard cause they have internal hierarchies one could describe as culture, but none can deny that they are more animal-like then most other space-traveling species. Well basically they are no space-traveling species, they live in space.

The new Noxter Gameplay will get you closer to the feeling that the Noxter Swarm itself is something like an giant organism and that Noxter organisms are growing beings and not constructed organic vessels (like the 8472 vessels seem to be).

We are working on it

posted on January 13th, 2009, 11:37 am

If the Noxter are 8472 clones, then most humanoid races are Human clones.

posted on January 13th, 2009, 4:51 pm

If the Noxter are 8472 clones, then most humanoid races are Human clones.

ah ok. so then the Noxter are of the same makeup as 8472 - akin to 8472 just as Klingons and Romulans are humanoid - so noxter are supposed to be "8472oid".

got it. confused though as to why we then would need to invent a new 8472ish race without first having anything of 8472.
interesting.

posted on January 13th, 2009, 5:23 pm

Actually Serpicus, I believe Tyler's point is that 8472 does not equal Noxter (hence why he said human clones)

Plus, as Optec just stated, the Noxter do not grow organic ships for their pilots... the ships are the pilots. Not to mention the Noxter live in normal space, not fluidic... and they are not reasoning or humanoid like 8472 was. In fact, I'd argue that 8472 is just like the Klingons or Romulans or Humans (even though they have 3 legs, other than that they are very humanoid-like despite the triple-helix). The noxter on the other hand will BE the ships, which is an entirely NEW concept for main startrek races.

posted on January 13th, 2009, 6:13 pm

Actually Serpicus, I believe Tyler's point is that 8472 does not equal Noxter (hence why he said human clones)

Plus, as Optec just stated, the Noxter do not grow organic ships for their pilots... the ships are the pilots. Not to mention the Noxter live in normal space, not fluidic... and they are not reasoning or humanoid like 8472 was. In fact, I'd argue that 8472 is just like the Klingons or Romulans or Humans (even though they have 3 legs, other than that they are very humanoid-like despite the triple-helix). The noxter on the other hand will BE the ships, which is an entirely NEW concept for main startrek races.

ok. thanks for clarifying.

But it does then become clear that they more than a clone they are then coming into being a quasi "rip off" (sorry if it sounds crude but has the imagery intended) of 8472.

Based on this clarification, what lends credence to this impression of Noxter is as follows:

1. they are not organic ships grown for pilots (8472). But are organic ships that are living and pilot free.

2. live in normal space and not fluidic space - but are intended be living ships in space (no planets or association therewith) which focus more on nebulae (a feature request in a thread yes but reflects the association intended, and approved by the mods).
8472 live in space (which is fluidic and again as wit noxter have no canon planetary association)
Moreover, when 8472 was introduced in A2, they even had nebulae as a special weapon. not to mention that fluidic space,(although in pedantic theory "fluidic") more closely resembles nebulae style environments than vacuous space (right down to voyager;s trails looking like reliant in mutara)... which again explains the approval for noxter to use nebulae so extensively and not the others, as well as the nebula special weapon for 8472 in A2.

3. 8472 ships are organic and reproduce (as per gameplay in A2) with larvae and evolution. Noxter being living insects by their nature cannot be much different.

4. The idea itself of having living ships in the STU is a derivative of 8472 - leaving aside the rather forgotten tinman episode of TNG.

So in effect while we see a difference being drawn in the above posts between 8472 the race and noxter the race (queer humanoid vs ship insects), as far as gameplay and ship tech are concerned (which btw is the main focus of FO since we are playing with ships) we see very little difference between the implementation of noxter the playable race and 8472 the playable race.

What we are then left with, other than nomenclature and an attempt to draw a distinction between the 2 based on the citations above, is that the Noxter are an attempt to get 8472 on more designable terms.

It is this clone like similarity that I feel uncomfortable with when considering playing as or against Noxter. I understand that there are issues that have been raised in regards to balancing and tech tree introductions for 8472, but we have also discussed solutions. The only disappointment being the implacable rejection of those solutions without any scope of discussion.

I would not presume to dictate anything to the mods. But I am sure they are interested in our feedback to improve the game, and 8472 (more so than noxter) if done with the proper finesse would be a huge bonus not just to the game itself, but to our overall enjoyment when playing the game.

Why we then completely reject 8472 as if it were taboo, and opt for Noxter citing difficulties with 8472, while at the same time completely block out any scope for discussion on how to work out those very difficulties, is what I am trying to understand!

posted on January 13th, 2009, 7:03 pm

So in effect while we see a difference being drawn in the above posts between 8472 the race and noxter the race (queer humanoid vs ship insects), as far as gameplay and ship tech are concerned (which btw is the main focus of FO since we are playing with ships) we see very little difference between the implementation of noxter the playable race and 8472 the playable race.

Not really - the truth is 8472 is bascially a "reskin" of any other Star Trek faction. They have ships that look like ships, they have beam weapons like every other faction, they are even humanoid in appearance.
There's nothing unique or original about them - especially in their combat mechanics.

The noxter, even in their scrapped old version state, were already more unique because they relied far more on numbers and, most importantly, close combat. Teeth, Claws, etc. - animal weaponry is the defining difference between 8472 and the Noxter.

[Anonymous]

posted on January 13th, 2009, 7:17 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on January 13th, 2009, 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Not really - the truth is 8472 is bascially a "reskin" of any other Star Trek faction. They have ships that look like ships, they have beam weapons like every other faction, they are even humanoid in appearance.
There's nothing unique or original about them - especially in their combat mechanics.

The noxter, even in their scrapped old version state, were already more unique because they relied far more on numbers and, most importantly, close combat. Teeth, Claws, etc. - animal weaponry is the defining difference between 8472 and the Noxter.

your point against 8472 being?
In the end we have a reskin in 8472 - not sure if everyone will agree but i see ur point.
and then we have noxter, which are "reskin of a reskin"?
numbers - well we've seen 8472 swarming in so that's more a similarity than anything.

animal weaponry, teeth, claws, ok.
But if that's it, I still dont see the reason for shunting away 8472 as if it were taboo.

posted on January 13th, 2009, 7:19 pm

ok. thanks for clarifying.

But it does then become clear that they more than a clone they are then coming into being a quasi "rip off" (sorry if it sounds crude but has the imagery intended) of 8472.

Based on this clarification, what lends credence to this impression of Noxter is as follows:

1. they are not organic ships grown for pilots (8472). But are organic ships that are living and pilot free.

2. live in normal space and not fluidic space - but are intended be living ships in space (no planets or association therewith) which focus more on nebulae (a feature request in a thread yes but reflects the association intended, and approved by the mods).
8472 live in space (which is fluidic and again as wit noxter have no canon planetary association)
Moreover, when 8472 was introduced in A2, they even had nebulae as a special weapon. not to mention that fluidic space,(although in pedantic theory "fluidic") more closely resembles nebulae style environments than vacuous space (right down to voyager;s trails looking like reliant in mutara)... which again explains the approval for noxter to use nebulae so extensively and not the others, as well as the nebula special weapon for 8472 in A2.

3. 8472 ships are organic and reproduce (as per gameplay in A2) with larvae and evolution. Noxter being living insects by their nature cannot be much different.

4. The idea itself of having living ships in the STU is a derivative of 8472 - leaving aside the rather forgotten tinman episode of TNG.

So in effect while we see a difference being drawn in the above posts between 8472 the race and noxter the race (queer humanoid vs ship insects), as far as gameplay and ship tech are concerned (which btw is the main focus of FO since we are playing with ships) we see very little difference between the implementation of noxter the playable race and 8472 the playable race.

What we are then left with, other than nomenclature and an attempt to draw a distinction between the 2 based on the citations above, is that the Noxter are an attempt to get 8472 on more designable terms.

It is this clone like similarity that I feel uncomfortable with when considering playing as or against Noxter. I understand that there are issues that have been raised in regards to balancing and tech tree introductions for 8472, but we have also discussed solutions. The only disappointment being the implacable rejection of those solutions without any scope of discussion.

I would not presume to dictate anything to the mods. But I am sure they are interested in our feedback to improve the game, and 8472 (more so than noxter) if done with the proper finesse would be a huge bonus not just to the game itself, but to our overall enjoyment when playing the game.

Why we then completely reject 8472 as if it were taboo, and opt for Noxter citing difficulties with 8472, while at the same time completely block out any scope for discussion on how to work out those very difficulties, is what I am trying to understand!

well if you fidn it that hard to play with them because there copies then dont play FO or play as them in FO and you wont have an issue, at the end of the day its jsut a bloody game, why do people take thigns so seriously.

Im up for any balanced race, made up or not as long as it as different style and tactic to the game so go FO and stop your whinning or such pointless things. I mena how much time did you have on ya hands to write all that?

[Anonymous]

posted on January 13th, 2009, 7:22 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on January 13th, 2009, 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

well if you fidn it that hard to play with them because there copies then dont play FO or play as them in FO and you wont have an issue, at the end of the day its jsut a bloody game, why do people take thigns so seriously.

Im up for any balanced race, made up or not as long as it as different style and tactic to the game so go FO and stop your whinning or such pointless things. I mena how much time did you have on ya hands to write all that?

this is what I was saying.

any suggestion - and someone has a heart attack - "dont play FO". What are you the friggin self-styled enforcer around here..
guess that will b e your asinine response to any of the threads or requests here.

If you're up for a balanced race then contribute and go over the threads to see what has been suggested for 8472 balancing.

And -  watch your tone - if you get me started you'll see who can get rude here!!

posted on January 13th, 2009, 7:33 pm

ive never known 8472 to be taboo round here, personally i have no issue with them but im not some hardcore trekkie.

i merely saying there is no need to go over board with it, the devs have said their reasons and they like their noxter race so leave them be with it, unless you wanna create and add them yourself which i wouldnt mind by the way as more races the better then go for it. But your asking them to dump their own race they have plenty of ideas planned for since beta 2 in favor of a race you prefer and to replan everythign for them... its just a bit cheeky...