How to make newbies advance in MP?

posted on June 19th, 2010, 1:00 am

I look forward to the training videos but I still feel the best way to get better is to just play.  It takes time to figure out the exact second to micro a ship away and when to break off your raid.  Also...micro in single player is much easier than micro in multiplayer mode where you have lag etc. to deal with.

It's best to keep a flow of new players in games such as these or your base will dwindle to the point you will never find a game! 

posted on June 19th, 2010, 1:38 am

Indeed, new players are what keeps this community alive, full of ideas, and FUN. So keep 'em coming . I'm always game for teaching new folk what I think works, and I try to do it in the friendliest way possible (I hope I don't snap too easily )

posted on June 19th, 2010, 1:50 am

Nah, tutorials aren't the answer. A tutorial can become outdated, can be outsmarted, lacks replay value and ulitmately is only a simulation of the very thing it's trying to teach. New players will advance by playing better players, if they are willing to learn from them.

posted on June 19th, 2010, 1:51 am

Well you're right but .... but but but but but ....

  Can we still make the video examples?

posted on June 19th, 2010, 1:53 am

Well you're right but .... but but but but but ....

  Can we still make the video examples?

Hehe, and of course the video examples will be updated and edited Not as easy as text in some regard, but definitely doable

posted on June 19th, 2010, 2:07 am

Nah, tutorials aren't the answer. A tutorial can become outdated, can be outsmarted, lacks replay value and ulitmately is only a simulation of the very thing it's trying to teach. New players will advance by playing better players, if they are willing to learn from them.

A lot of the tutorial stuff with be basic at first, like trying to buy supplies from the starbase and a visual inspection of hard counters for ships.  The hope is to come up with some very high quality stuff.  Funny and I are coming up with some great ideas, and some others are working on other fronts.  I think it will be a good move in the end.

posted on June 19th, 2010, 6:39 am

I absolutely get what the other elderly players suggest, but to be true...FO starts to bore me cause when I play against new or average ppl they usually spam one or two types of units (Intrepids, Susa, KBQ, Bombers, Disruptor rhienns). This is ok as long as you are able to advance in tech during a game...I usually spam to a certain degree Generix or Rhienns...but I am able to advance and use the ships. During the last matches my mining was almost never attacked allowing me to mine from 4 moon pairs at some time. So I just sit there and observe the match massing ships. In some matches I even do not engage in combat cause the opponent would loose the match very eraly...all these things make it very difficult for me to become better and have fun...I think I should do this pw game and ask for better people eventhough I find this quite arrogant.

A MP simulator at least for certain aspects like micro would be really nice...maybe just some tower defense. There you have to manage your ships as good as possible against waves of enemies. This is also a good training for better players! But I guess without triggers like in Star Craft editor we cannot make those maps.

posted on June 20th, 2010, 12:45 am

First a quick update with me, I've been away for a while as you may know, so posting off an itouch is difficult, I hope to be back In week to help with this

as I remember the first time I played a fo mp match the biggest thingwas microig
with speed, micro ships and everything and even now I get into games such as my recent yando replay vs boggs
where it becomes hard to try to micro an attack fleet , build ships ,track enemy movements, and defend sometimes all at the same time, when new plAyers get into this it can be overwhelming, I belive it can only take time to master microng and such

so The first idea I would like to propose would be a ranking chart, now I'm not talking about a competetie ranking chart with me as number 1 haha, just kidding, I'm just talking about groupigs of players, so new players and then different levels of other players, besides some of the more skilled players could be there specialitys, for Instance, besides my name would be maybe Borg v 3.12 and general tactics, besides doms name would  be everything (see the guide) so new players would know who's skilled And to whom to
ask advice about whAt  

This list would also help new players who's find out who is In there general skill level, because while it can be good to play players who are much better, it is funner to have a challenge playing against somone hour skill level, and you will still get better playing

also just to clarify none competitve ranking chart, just maybe 4-5 different groups

the second thing that I think would help new players is looking at replays, being an observer, and begging yando. To record there game (like I did) I seriously feel like my game has gotten better throuh these methods, especially with yando comments and suggestions, but when you get a recorded game with yando commenting on you, I feel
like it help me tie down some loose ends and see areas I needed to work on, such as making sure my movement autonomy was low, and a few other settings so my ships wooild be easier to keep
out of the starbase fire range,

the beat thing however, and I only did this recently would be to observe and watch a live game unfold, and watchig the two teams talk back and forth, this just helps
you to see other peoples follys, and can help you to just get the fel
of the game when starrti g out, plus no begging yando to record

I also strongly reccomend a few tutorial videos, and all these need to be Is basic videos, keep them basic so they don't need to be updated for every version, we all know mining won't change much, so like I said make it basic so then players can apply the different species to it, however some things such as Borgs
different system of building and mining

so In conclusion I would love to help with the ideas I just mentioned, and I will be back in about 5 days for a week, in my expirience as a former new player and the few times I have been away and come back, the things I have mentioned would help new players, it isn't just about making players better as fast as possible, it's more About making them have fun

posted on June 20th, 2010, 2:20 am

I just wanted to touch on something in response to what Arash said earlier, even though it has nothing to do with this topic.   

I agree that when an opponent is defeated but hiding a scout somewhere cloaked, that that's when you say gg and quit the game.  Unfortunately, he is referring to a game where the opponents had 5 tac cubes and about 3 or 4 spheres hiding in a blue nebula.  I understand that some players may get a little prideful of their huge fleets of ships and may not want to sacrifice 5-10 ships to finish the game, but I enjoy a good last ditch fight to complete the fun I had in the game.  I say if the winners have huge fleets, then they should give it a last hurrah and send them in to win the game.  And if those players with the 5 tac cubes and that big rommi ship were newbs, then the game would have been over a lot sooner.  Also, the enemy knew exactly where the cubes were, but refused to rush them.  So the losing team was accused of keeping the game going for too long.  LOL

posted on June 20th, 2010, 2:47 am

As long as the game is fun for everybody, then I see no problem with dragging it out. Besides, if a losing team "drags it out" and can pull a victory out of that - then kudos to them. That shows greater strategic awareness in my opinion 

posted on June 20th, 2010, 3:57 am

...all these things make it very difficult for me to become better and have fun...I think I should do this pw game and ask for better people eventhough I find this quite arrogant.

  No one is forcing you to play with anyone else, Drrr .  If you want to have a game with more experienced players, then send them a Tunngle Private message and ask them.  You can then set up a passworded game with one or two of their names attached to it.

  I don't think there is anything arrogant about saying you'd like to play with a few specific people .  As long as you are polite to anyone who you'd rather not have join then there is no harm.

  Don't broadcast on Tunngle "HEY ONLY GOOD PEOPLE JOIN MY GAME PLEASE" .  That's just rude, yes.  There are lots of ways to politely and privately ask better people to join your game.

posted on June 20th, 2010, 5:16 am

Aye, whenever I want to organize a "private" game (or am requested to have one) I just password it up, give out the password to people who want to observe and usually name the game something else so as not to offend people . I just like to make sure that people don't get offended when I ask them to observe or to have a separate game  .

posted on June 20th, 2010, 9:01 am

Ok my suggestion: Let them have fun - they will improve like everyone else sooner or later.

100% true


and: Im dissapointed that this topic did actually come up. Thats seriosly nothing positive

posted on June 20th, 2010, 2:01 pm

Last week I teamed up with a new player, using the Armada mode. It was a 1v1, and I showed the basics like micro and counters. I believe that it was very successful and helped the player a lot.

posted on June 20th, 2010, 3:59 pm

first of all im new, but i think im a decent skilled new player.
i started to play vs ai first and was confused by the new gameplay. so i did what i allways do in those cases - i read topics about strategy and watch replays if its possible.
after watching some replays i tried to copy those strategys from the replays and realized that there is a big differnce between the pvp and pvai.
to improve the skillz of new players, you should just make a sticky topic with some important links: replays, the race guide (with conter and strategy guides) and short general advices. the idea with short clips where you can see how to conter other ships would be nice.

.. to be continued