Online Etiquette - Let's Be Clear.

posted on February 15th, 2010, 9:19 pm

I've never had a problem with anyone who went straight from rhienns to rhienn refits, because their early game is so awful.  There Dominus, happy?  Sheesh.

If all you have are rhienns, I'll crush you with fast fast, spammy spammy units, and you won't have the resources to upgrade enough rhienn refits for it to matter.  Sadly, the romulans just can't counter the other races well.  All their strengths got turned into weaknesses this patch.  But that will change.

posted on February 15th, 2010, 9:22 pm

Can you actually survive a rhien spamm (i mean as spammer), o more precisly get to do this? When i get to rhienns i am mostly able to build more cost effective ships like d'deridex.

posted on February 15th, 2010, 9:31 pm

I see you survived through my puns Mal . Surviving by Rhienn spamming in 3.1.1... that's another story altogether in multiplayer. Never seen anybody pull it off yet

posted on February 15th, 2010, 9:33 pm

I don't know what you mean, mimesot.  Are you asking can you survive against someone spamming rhienns?  Most of the other factions have no problem, becasue rhienns are outnumbered 2-1 or 3-1.  And "phase plates" doesn't last very long, and you can just retreat for a few seconds until it wears off, and then completely destroy the entire romulan fleet.  Their offense is pretty pitiful.

As far as surviving the early game as romulans, Leahvals have been the only thing I've found that can even come close to competing, because the repair gives them some staying power.  But you have to retreat as soon as you're out of power, because you simply cannot lose ships as Romulan.

Also, I haven't found the larger warbirds to be all that effective.  Maybe you've found a way to make it happen, but I find everything but the tavara ends up dieing too quickly.

One thing I've seen from stardust and I'll try out more, is after making your leahvals, is to switch to generix refits instead of rhienn refits.  It's cheaper, but you get some decent cruisers out of the deal, so you can afford a second yard or make a few cap ships or what have you.  I know I've tried so many variations that I'm sick of trying to make the Romulans viable when I know that they'll be fixing it in the next few weeks.  I'll just play dominion or something and have fun until then.

posted on February 15th, 2010, 9:46 pm

I meant it the other way round. I proposed that noone can win by spamming rhienns.

If playing helev it might be a good way to build levathal and then generix refits. But with mijural, warbirds ca build a prety powerful main strike force, as it is possible to micro the huge vessels a little. Microing generixes is much too difficult for me, as they go down whith one blast of e.g. a dozen k'vorts. I can at least try to turn around and cloak a d'deridex though.

posted on February 15th, 2010, 9:52 pm

I just get graviton pinged about 80% of the time and lose my D'deridex.   I just haven't found anything for Mijural that keeps her competitive.  All her bonuses are at the warbird yard, and +3 to defense and +10 to speed (both avatars get +3 to offense) doesn't seem like enough.  Especially when a Risner defiant gets +5 to offense and 4 to system value!

So any strat for Mijural has to involve turrets, 2 tavaras, and a couple of warbirds, because helev has better options from that point on.  I hope they change the bonuses a little in the Romulan Redo to make both avatars more useful.

posted on February 15th, 2010, 9:59 pm

Yes, good players are fast with triggering that nasty feature.

I am confident that tis imbalance wil be changed soon.

posted on February 15th, 2010, 10:14 pm

I think the issue with Spamming Rhienn Disruptor Refits is more of an issue with multi-targeting direct damage weapons in general.

Example:

V-13's spammed using excessive Strike.  Push Button = Dead

Disruptor Rhienn's spammed using Multi-Target = Dead


That's in the nature of multi-targeting direct damage because it's so easy and spreads out.  Thus at some point you hit a "critical mass" where once you have enough you cannot be beaten because you can remove so much of your opponent's firepower in one button push. 

Granted Rhienn Refitting is DAMN expensive and not very practical, but mid game it is possible.  I just don't like multi-target direct damage in general.  Direct damage single target weapons are fine because they inherently get harder to use the more you have .  If you just push one button and click, you generaly WAY overkill a single unit instead of blasting a dozen.

posted on February 15th, 2010, 10:17 pm

But would't a horde of hienns be stupid enough to all target the same 5 vessels. Tese are killed instantly then, but after tha they are chickeneed themselves.

posted on February 15th, 2010, 10:42 pm

Well, these multi targeting direct damage vessels aren't all that powerful.  The V-13 can miss and if you're spamming V-13s, you're probably winning anyway.  It doesn't hurt that V-13s get 18 points in free stats for the avatar that you would use to build them.

Multi-targeting disruptor does 25 damage.  So to one shot the weakest defensive unit in the game, the brel (and bug), which has a total hitpoint value of 237, you'd need 10 disruptor refits, which would do 250 damage.

10 disruptor refits amounts to 7070 dilithium, and 450 supply without avatar bonuses.  With 7070, I can make 28 brels and change with a supply cost of 280.  So 5 of them get owned all at once, leaving 23 brels with tactical weapon arrays that do extra damage to long ranged units against like the rhienn.  As you begin to move on to cruisers and stronger ships, you'd need more rhienns to do significant instant damage before they are destroyed.

I guess what I'm saying is that for the cost, especially the insane amount of supplies they require for the refit, they'd better be able to do some kind of damage.  

posted on February 15th, 2010, 10:47 pm

Well Mal I see exactly what you mean and you're right.

Keep in mind though that: 1 Rhienn hitting 5 vessels means 125 damage overall.

The more that show up just means the enemies are more and more damaged as time goes on.

  I'm not saying the Disruptor Rhienn is too powerful by any means, I'm just saying that I'm not a fan of weapons like that .

posted on February 15th, 2010, 10:55 pm

Well, precise volley does 425 base damage to shields, and a cheap, spamable destroyer like the monsoon does 70 base damage, so I don't think it's too out of line.  And hey!  Stop poo pooing on my poor romulans! >:(  They're having a hard time as it is!   It's the feds you should be worried about!

posted on February 15th, 2010, 11:25 pm

Yeah... I wouldn't call Disrupter Rhienns spammable by any means. Just the other day I encountered close to 15 of them... and they went down reaaaaally fast, and only managed to kill a small fraction of forces. 

posted on February 15th, 2010, 11:34 pm

Hey c'mon now, y'all!  Let's read the  post now! 

  I just said that I didn't think the Disruptor Rhienn was too powerful.  Read it again !

  Just sayin I don't like multi-target direct damage.  Precise volley is a single target thing.  Single target weapons by nature lose power the more you have because you risk overkilling and if you don't, you are forced to micro them in order to spread them out efficiently.  Not the hardest thing in the world but it's extra focus and time that you could be micro'ing other things .  You boys are good, you know that's the case.

posted on February 15th, 2010, 11:45 pm

I read the post, I just don't see it as much different than selecting a few ships and using their single weapons to blow away a ship instantly,  It's easy to put monsoons in groups of 4 or more and 1 shot a vessel, and then select the second group, etc.  It's just one extra button click to me.