Ramming Etiquette

posted on August 27th, 2009, 11:27 pm

instead of trying to build starfleet command u could build another shipyard and do what Dominus said...

spam sabers like there is no tomorrow 



and in our game long ago that was almost exactly like this one... i did try to build starfleet command several times and i was Risner... 

posted on August 27th, 2009, 11:31 pm

For Risner it doesn't work though Mort: 25% build reduction doesn't exist sadly, so no way of massing that many Sabers quickly enough I find.

[funnystuffpictures]

posted on August 27th, 2009, 11:33 pm

Last edited by funnystuffpictures on August 28th, 2009, 2:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

instead of trying to build starfleet command u could build another shipyard and do what Dominus said...

spam sabers like there is no tomorrow  



and in our game long ago that was almost exactly like this one... i did try to build starfleet command several times and i was Risner...  

Maybe that is why you said, "Dam you risner!" 
And yes sabers rock. I just played a game with catty and he toldaly kicked my butt with sabers! But that is because he was expecting it.  Imagine how other races (such as rommulans) cope with this? This isnt only about feds you know?

posted on August 28th, 2009, 2:09 am

Uf I forgot about the mining and con ships, so ok. I guess that is OP and kind of sucky if it happened to anyone

I still stand by my point though, even if the thing will get nerfed in the next patch. A lot of things for other races got nerfed b4 and yet everyone still used it (b4 the fix came out) when it got them an advantage. If you think this is OP, just consider it a challenge and try to win despite the odds against you. Thats how it has always worked (for all online games for that matter) and being pissy or angry about it is childish and quite dumb to be honest.

Yes this is how Mort and I approached this in one of our games, but sadly ir didnt work. we got rushed by assimilators and even though we didnt have many ships, they still rammed and sent in dreads! That is what started me to create this thread

posted on August 28th, 2009, 7:32 am

"I am drunk" Best excuse ever! I will forgo offense cause of that  Maybe I could play you cause I would have the advantage.

I said I was wee bit drunk! And it wasnt an excuse, I only said that some things annoy me even more when I'm in such a state

I actually do remember, and I also remember asking people to stop using them in numbers and I also remember many people complaining--many of them Federation players--about how overpowered the Plasma Coil was. And guess what--it was fixed because of that!  . Guess who made the video push to have the Norway fixed: oh no, it couldn't be! It was! Funnystuffpictures (Star Trek Armada II: Fleet Operations - Topic changed: Cascade Feedback; What can't it do? Worse than Norways!!!!)  I think you owe a slight apology Baron, please?

Funnystuffpictures isn't a bad player, and this video was done merely for dramatic effect--to show what a typical "balanced" game of Federation versus Dominion can be like, so no hard feelings please  . Interestingly enough, the Federation suffers the least at the hands of this Dominion strategy. Romulan Rhienns die much more easily and can maneuver less easily (and are more expensive), B'rels can't even leave the scene of the crime (well, they do ok against this strategy... but only if you are able to destroy your opponent's expansion given some good luck).

Trust me, collision is quite painful, and of the several times that I've experienced this particular strategy myself, I would have lost all if I hadn't had capitalized on some micromanagement with a few leftover ships. If the opposing players had kept it up, and kept destroying my construction ships and mining, instead of failing to scout properly, I guarantee you that there would have been no way to win. Of course all this debate is pointless for affecting balance: it's about trying to get people to actually resist using exploits and indeed using their brain  .

I have nothing against funnystuffpictures and I dont think I insulted him in that post (well exceptm if calling someone mediocre is insulting, though I dont think so. Mediocre = average, no?)

Now for plasma coil, I fully remember a lot of you guys complaining about it but a lot of people still used it to the fullest, did they not? In fact, Id say a lot more people abused that thing than what a few Dominion players are doing now with bugs. And yes, that was fixed, but so will the the collision, so I really dont see the point of this thread any longer. I just find the irony pleasingly funny

Also remember one thing, when the Dominionn first made an appearance in FO, this ability was also OP. In fact it did area damage so you were able to destroy whole fleets with only a few bugs. Then they fixed it and it was worthless (almost). And it remained that way untill the last change, when again it does a lot of damamge to non-borg units. Honestly, I dont think this can be balanced so its just right. I think a passive ability is the best thing right now.

posted on August 28th, 2009, 8:48 am

Yea, Baron, we are about to realize the same thing we changed a few things here and there in the next patch, but i think we will take a look into a passive "ramming ability" in the future, but that requires a lot mroe coding, so its not on the imminent todo list

posted on August 28th, 2009, 3:05 pm

Well, in Star Trek lore it shouldn't as shields should protect against anything that size. Even a Sovereign ramming didn't do *that* much damage.

In ds9 a fleet of bug ships took out half the klingon fleet by ramming them, including bre'ls, and vorcha class ships, a vorcha is around the same size as a galaxy class, shields cannot block a ship they too heavy a space stations shields are stronger however and could, bare in mind that shield strength is based on power generated within the ship.
Now of course there is a balance issue here with the ramming but the result is accurate.

posted on August 28th, 2009, 4:56 pm

Last night while playing a game, Dr Preceptron and I came up with a few ideas for ram.
      1) What if it had to be researched? This would surely stop the early game consrtuctor ram abusers.
      2) What if it costs supply (kind of like the rommulan intell)
      3) Maybe for the ram research idea there could be different improvements to research. For Example: Improved Damage to constructors, destroyers, cruisers, ect....

[funnystuffpictures]

posted on August 28th, 2009, 5:09 pm

Last edited by funnystuffpictures on August 28th, 2009, 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I said I was wee bit drunk! And it wasnt an excuse, I only said that some things annoy me even more when I'm in such a state

I believe your excact words were, "Sorry if I sound harsh but I am a wee bit drunk at the moment."

I have nothing against funnystuffpictures and I dont think I insulted him in that post (well exceptm if calling someone mediocre is insulting, though I dont think so. Mediocre = average, no?)

To most people being called an average player wouldnt offend them. But to someone who plays the game practically every day, for the last 4 months, I hope I've become something a little more than average.  Also in the video has nothing to do with my skill or Dominus's. There is no skill in trying to build stations and ramming getting you constructors rammed before you can do anything. If you want you can ask Dominus. He and I both aggree that there is no skill in abusing ram and any other "bug". And if you dont think that ram is a bug then have a sense of humor and realize the name of the ship it's on.

In ds9 a fleet of bug ships took out half the klingon fleet by ramming them, including bre'ls, and vorcha class ships, a vorcha is around the same size as a galaxy class, shields cannot block a ship they too heavy a space stations shields are stronger however and could, bare in mind that shield strength is based on power generated within the ship.
Now of course there is a balance issue here with the ramming but the result is accurate.

After playing the game for quite some time now I realize something
Canon<Gameplay
And if we went by the show entirely the feds would end up winning eveery time, which they practically do now so... 

posted on August 28th, 2009, 5:09 pm

Well, in Star Trek lore it shouldn't as shields should protect against anything that size. Even a Sovereign ramming didn't do *that* much damage.

ehm the sovreign had way less speed. The impact of the bugs is at max impulse speed ... so of course it hurts more

posted on August 28th, 2009, 5:15 pm

I believe this discussion has lost its logic. I believe that a more logical solution would be to leave the ramming as is and discuss something more of need.

[/Vulcan]

Okay, seriously, this conversation is just going nowhere with the etiquette. :fish:

Let the Borg assimilate this thread and move on people.

[funnystuffpictures]

posted on August 28th, 2009, 5:16 pm

Last edited by funnystuffpictures on August 28th, 2009, 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

You guys I think I found that if your constructor faces the bug head on, or slightly turned, it will only lose its engines and be severly damaged, But not destroyed!!!. Anyone want to test this out with me?

posted on August 28th, 2009, 5:39 pm

I'll be back in about 1.5 hours: if you haven't tested by then I'll be up for some games

ehm the sovreign had way less speed. The impact of the bugs is at max impulse speed ... so of course it hurts more

*cough* momentum *cough*
A Sovereign should do way more damage then a bug due to it's apparent maximum velocity and mass. Don't tell me that a Bug can exceed the speed of light of course

However, shows are rarely internally consistent. As Eraldo mentioned, bugs did take out Vor'cha's, without even a flicker of shields. In fact, throughout the DS9 battles, shields are rarely if ever seen (except on the Defiant). We've had this discussion before unfortunatley, and I bet we will have it again on the forums.

posted on August 28th, 2009, 5:46 pm

Wouldn't a ship that rams a target with no intention of coming out alive also likely to combine it with a Self destruct or detonating ammunition? That could be another reason for the bug causing so much damage...with the Odyssey was also hit in the Engineering section, not too far from where the Warp Core should be.

[funnystuffpictures]

posted on August 28th, 2009, 5:51 pm

Last edited by funnystuffpictures on August 28th, 2009, 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I'll be back in about 1.5 hours: if you haven't tested by then I'll be up for some games

*cough* momentum *cough*
A Sovereign should do way more damage then a bug due to it's apparent maximum velocity and mass. Don't tell me that a Bug can exceed the speed of light of course

However, shows are rarely internally consistent. As Eraldo mentioned, bugs did take out Vor'cha's, without even a flicker of shields. In fact, throughout the DS9 battles, shields are rarely if ever seen (except on the Defiant). We've had this discussion before unfortunatley, and I bet we will have it again on the forums.

Yes sure I think I might be on! There doesnt seem to be anyone online right now so I think we're good. Yes the sovereign would truly do much more damage than a bug. maybe this could be a veteran special for the sovereign!  That would bepretty cool.

Wouldn't a ship that rams a target with no intention of coming out alive also likely to combine it with a Self destruct or detonating ammunition? That could be another reason for the bug causing so much damage...with the Odyssey was also hit in the Engineering section, not too far from where the Warp Core should be.

Oh thank you so much Tyler for reminding me. I knew I was forgetting something. I also had another idea, based on this hyptohesis that sometimes the bug would miss (a lot for unranked bugs) and just blow up.