Ramming Etiquette

posted on August 28th, 2009, 5:51 pm

It could be, but in that case that would go back to the self destruct argument about AM actually being destructive when a ship is destroyed.

posted on August 28th, 2009, 5:54 pm

Do the Dominion use Antimatter?

posted on August 28th, 2009, 6:01 pm

It could be, but in that case that would go back to the self destruct argument about AM actually being destructive when a ship is destroyed.

In the Voyager Episode "Dreadnaught" Captain Janeway activates a 20 minute self destruct countdown and sets a collision course to colide with the drreadnaught missile.

posted on August 28th, 2009, 6:07 pm

I don't know, I presume so

In the Voyager Episode "Dreadnaught" Captain Janeway activates a 20 minute self destruct countdown and sets a collision course to colide with the drreadnaught missile.

Well, according to that logic the dreadnought's antimatter and the Voyager's would have been useless otherwise that act would cause a considerable amount of devastation to the planets surface and upper atmosphere as well. That of course defies any logic though.

posted on August 28th, 2009, 6:11 pm

I'll be back in about 1.5 hours: if you haven't tested by then I'll be up for some games

*cough* momentum *cough*
A Sovereign should do way more damage then a bug due to it's apparent maximum velocity and mass. Don't tell me that a Bug can exceed the speed of light of course

However, shows are rarely internally consistent. As Eraldo mentioned, bugs did take out Vor'cha's, without even a flicker of shields. In fact, throughout the DS9 battles, shields are rarely if ever seen (except on the Defiant). We've had this discussion before unfortunatley, and I bet we will have it again on the forums.

*cough*
a shot of a pistol kills ya, but if the bullet hits ya with 1 m/s u will quite surely surive :-)
speed makes alot difference here, even if my example is quite extreme, but i hope u see what i mean

[Dominus_Noctis]

posted on August 28th, 2009, 6:13 pm

Last edited by Dominus_Noctis on August 28th, 2009, 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

*cough*
a shot of a pistol kills ya, but if the bullet hits ya with 1 m/s u will quite surely surive :-)
speed makes alot difference here, even if my example is quite extreme, but i hope u see what i mean

A two ton anvil at 1/ms will ensure you don't

EDIT: Well, it will need to be a bit faster, but I'm sure you understand what I am getting at.

posted on August 28th, 2009, 6:29 pm

I believe your excact words were, "Sorry if I sound harsh but I am a wee bit drunk at the moment."

Yes, so? I said the things I said in a harsh tone, that doesnt say I didnt mean what I said. So ok, it is an excuse for harshness of my tone ( ), but certainly not for the context of my post.

To most people being called an average player wouldnt offend them. But to someone who plays the game practically every day, for the last 4 months, I hope I've become something a little more than average.  Also in the video has nothing to do with my skill or Dominus's. There is no skill in trying to build stations and ramming getting you constructors rammed before you can do anything. If you want you can ask Dominus. He and I both aggree that there is no skill in abusing ram and any other "bug". And if you dont think that ram is a bug then have a sense of humor and realize the name of the ship it's on.

Hehe, ok, you're above average Honestly though, I didnt mean it as an insult. I consider myself as an average player atm. Sure, I used to be one of the best but times change hehe.
I apologize if I insulted you.
About the bug's bug: Its not actually a bug, since everything is working as was planned It is maybe a bit unbalancing if overused. But it will be fixed so everything is A-OK 

Oh and about the skill involved. Its still harder to idividualy click each bug a select it a target, than it was to mass-select the Norways and aim somewhere in space and everything went boom lol. Though both are of course not proper ways to win games.

[Dominus_Noctis]

posted on August 28th, 2009, 6:36 pm

Last edited by Dominus_Noctis on August 28th, 2009, 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Just a little English fyi--as I think I now understand what went wrong here--the word mediocre carries a negative connotation while "average" generally does not

About the bug's bug: Its not actually a bug, since everything is working as was planned

Mostly anyway: other than the things I mentioned in one of my first few posts on this thread (that of being able to take out construction ships that early on was not intended for instance).

Oh and about the skill involved. Its still harder to idividualy click each bug a select it a target, than it was to mass-select the Norways and aim somewhere in space and everything went boom lol. Though both are of course not proper ways to win games.

I agree. Pain in the arse!

posted on August 28th, 2009, 6:43 pm

Yes, so? I said the things I said in a harsh tone, that doesnt say I didnt mean what I said. So ok, it is an excuse for harshness of my tone ( ), but certainly not for the context of my post.

Hehe, ok, you're above average Honestly though, I didnt mean it as an insult. I consider myself as an average player atm. Sure, I used to be one of the best but times change hehe.
I apologize if I insulted you.
About the bug's bug: Its not actually a bug, since everything is working as was planned It is maybe a bit unbalancing if overused. But it will be fixed so everything is A-OK 

Oh sure of course not. No offense taken.

posted on August 28th, 2009, 8:48 pm

I agree. Pain in the arse!

Now, don't be sarcastic

posted on August 28th, 2009, 8:50 pm

I wasn't   

[tom]

posted on August 29th, 2009, 1:05 pm

Last edited by tom on August 29th, 2009, 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

i watched the vid as promised. frankly U didnt play all that well:

• 1st mining station should have been build closer to the starbase
• starfleet command should have been build behind the starbase
• fast exp is a bad idea vs the dominion
  [li]when i saw a bug going for ur miners and ur sabers just waiting next to ur shipyard instead of intercepting it i stopped watching

calling ramming gayOPimba after u lost playing badly i not fair. U didnt use ur ships, misplaced ur stations and it seemed like u didnt anticipate ramming at all.
putting a scout near ur opponent's shipyard, intercepting bugs with sabers, making an extra miner (a miner is cheaper then a bug afaik, so its a loss for dominion player when he rams U if u have one extra), station placement. those are things just for first 5 min of gameplay U could improve on.

sry man but this thread just adds up to all those threads in balance forum we had b4 about useless sov, OP rhienns, ...

posted on August 29th, 2009, 2:17 pm

I guess you didn't notice my mistakes either Tom (I lost 3 perfectly good bugs at the beginning, when instead I could have easily destroyed his mining at the beginning with them) I could have easily taken out his constructs and mining if he had done what you had said--in fact, I could have taken out his mining easier! (because then my bugs wouldn't have gotten stuck on his mining station). The Scout next to my base was to show you what I was doing.

Just you try to beat this strategy with any other faction and avatar (minus the Borg).

A Bug may be more expensive than a miner, but the loss to income that you get is in fact much more deadly. Fast expansion is a perfectly reasonable way of going against the Dominion, but not usually when the Bug is deployed as such, I agree. We wanted to use this (the most common Federation strategy) to show how much it fails, even despite how supposedly powerful it is. I think you went over the top calling this akin to the Sovereign threads--if you believe that, then you are ridiculous for whining about the Newton.

[tom]

posted on August 29th, 2009, 3:05 pm

Last edited by tom on August 29th, 2009, 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

i noticed ur mistakes

A Bug may be more expensive than a miner, but the loss to income that you get is in fact much more deadly. Fast expansion is a perfectly reasonable way of going against the Dominion, but not usually when the Bug is deployed as such, I agree. We wanted to use this (the most common Federation strategy) to show how much it fails, even despite how supposedly powerful it is. I think you went over the top calling this akin to the Sovereign threads--if you believe that, then you are ridiculous for whining about the Newton.

there is no loss to income if u have an extra miner. even if u ram 2 there is a little loss. i think that its gr8 that this fast warpin strat fails, but maybe its just me .

the story is that i contacted funny after reading this thread. he told me that i had NO chance beating this. we played a game. i was playing feds cuz he was playing feds in the vid. i won. he said that he could abuse ramming even more and then i really had no chance. we played again and i won again despite making mistakes (i lost a constuctor, a few miners, a few sabers). please dont say U could easily destroy his mining or construction cuz if he played right U couldn't.

i advised mining station closer to starbase cuz of a bug i expirienced when U can't use the mining station when ur miner gets hit while unloading res. additionally u cant move away a miner that is unloading res.

i classified this as "one of those threads" cuz i hear that ramming is gamebreaking. it is not. i played funny to prove this, he basically did what u did, i won hands down. i dont have time to figure out strats for other races and this would be pointless cuz of the patch. imo klings shouldnt have problem with it (i played against that with klings already), roms suffer the most but i'm sure they still can beat it.

i dont want to argue over it any more as i played with funny for that v reason. if U cant beat ramming then U r doing something wrong.

EDIT: i'm also afraid that ramming will get overnerfed cuz of all this crying how OP it is. i dont want to see fast warpin as the single way to go as feds. the fact that ramming makes fed players use something else then warpin->canaveral->excelsiorII makes me feel all warm inside

posted on August 29th, 2009, 3:28 pm

I give up. If you want to play with people that only use Dominion Bugs and nothing else, go right ahead. You can call it balanced all you want, but the fact that the Devs have already changed it should speak wonders about your opinion on this.

If I played somebody who was a strong player using Dominion Bugs 1v1, I would certainly lose. Even if I haven't lost against it, it doesn't make the strategy overpowered. Pit two average players against each other, and no brains needed, the Dominion collision user will win. As Baron said, skill is a major factor--I'd hope you'd agree with that at least.

I think you completely missed the point of most of the arguments here--but that's because you never play for fun (well, the traditional sense of fun anyway--I guess you find fun to be the next sentence). You want to win as soon as possible with little deviation. I could care less for how many times you win against Funnystuff, because I know for example that you would have been super pissed if Mark had abused bugs against you in our 2v2 two days ago. That's right, all your hard earned Vor'cha and Negh'var would have bit the dust using one to two bugs (which is funny in and of itself, as Mark has played a grand total of two games in three months). Seems like a fair trade, right? Maybe some time you should try playing Dominion and just using Bugs. Then again, I guess you "don't have the time".

As for your edit, you'll see in the next patch that the strategies will have to become more diverse because of some very nice tweaks to movement speed and specific unit roles.

Fast Warp In is not the only way to go with Feds--why do you say that anyway?